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[Music]

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explore the bazaars are your e-ticket

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ride into the world of the paranoid

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strap yourself in as we traverse the

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universe exploring the unexplained UFO s

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ghosts Lost Worlds cryptozoology as well

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as other dimensions it's time to take

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back the night last night now your

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electrifying hosts of exploring the

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well Tim Timmy Schwartz come here mmm

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here look at different types of flying

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saucers in the sky Wow they're all

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around this this one overhead looks like

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it could be from Venus or Mars

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definitely extraterrestrial would you

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say oh come on and that was in front of

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us could be a Nazi time travel device we

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we've written about that numerous times

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I recognized the shape and in size hmm

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and and do you straight I think this

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strange-looking device but further

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arnout to be from the Inner Earth and

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might be driven by one of Richard

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shavers evil demented mutant dear Oh

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oh that could be definitely you could

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tell from the shape look at that would

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did weird device I mean that's not from

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Venus or Mars those are the loving guys

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these are the very spiteful dear oh

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they'll literally each alive and damn

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damn it ten if that one with the lid up

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portholes with the weird red glow inside

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must be Satan himself at the at the

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wheel boy look at that you can almost

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see him sticking his pitchfork out at us

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I'm sure I'm sure a lot of people would

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like to stick us with a fit for I hope

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that's his pitchfork sticking out oh hey

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this is this is broadcast live from Las

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Vegas over Casey or

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No and his Patriots we've got to report

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this right away

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I bet the CIA would be interested in

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finding out all they can about those

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flying saucers that have been seen in

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the sky and and you know I I think

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somehow we're gonna find our way inside

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the saucers tonight we got to get right

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in there you know go undercover and see

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what God's name is going on right Tim

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well I think we're the only ones

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interested anymore

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definitely the military isn't interested

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intelligence services aren't interested

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so it's up to us well in our two guests

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yes and why don't you why don't you tell

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everybody who we're going to partake

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from their knowledge of this evening

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sure well right now we have online

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Preston Dennett now press has been on

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the show before and so I mean we're

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we're all familiar with his fantastic

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books and just to remind everyone you

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know Preston began investigate him

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writing about UFOs in 1986 when he

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discovered that his family friends and

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co-workers were having just kind of like

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you know weird unexplained encounters

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and since then he has interviewed

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hundreds of witnesses and investigated a

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wide variety of a paranormal phenomena

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he's a field investigator for a MUFON

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ghost hunter a paranormal researcher and

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the author of many many books as well as

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just really fascinating articles for

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magazines this is fade Atlantis rising

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MUFON UFO journal and mysteries magazine

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yes I was the co-editor of that magazine

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so Preston you know glad to have you

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with us later on in the program we are

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going to have a larry hancock with us

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he'll will be joining us probably after

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the first series of breaks at the bottom

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of the hour but right now we have

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Preston so love the one you with I will

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Preston glad to have you with us well

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Preston good Beckley here in new york

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and that was tim schwartzen-muth iain

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yeah big city big city but yeah we're

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going inside the saucers because that's

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your your your most recent book inside

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UFOs what's that all about I mean

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obviously you're not an abductee that I

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know of or a contact me you haven't been

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inside any UFO personally that I'm aware

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of unless something has happened since

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your last appearance on the show here so

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tell us about inside UFOs yeah sure

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thanks very much nice to talk to you

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guys again yeah wonderful ways having

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you on you've got a a wealth of

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information I mean you know we got

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something new to share and of course I

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owe you

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since the days of a UFO universe and

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it's spin-off publications you did

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dozens of articles for us with some very

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elaborate very nice artwork by your

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niece I believe right

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my sister-in-law your sister-in-law okay

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I know what was in the family right

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right no no I haven't been abducted yet

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though you know I'm ready to go any time

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if they're out there I just don't want

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any needles or you know probing or

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anything but otherwise yeah I'm good but

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yeah I've been very busy this is my

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latest book inside UFOs and what I like

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about this book is it's all my own

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research I've written a bunch of UFOs

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over various states and that draws on a

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big wide net of course or like UFO

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healings or different books like this

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but these are all my own cases and these

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are ten of probably be more extensive

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and the more unusual cases and by that I

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mean they're all involving face-to-face

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contact or most cases being taken on

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board and inside these objects so yeah

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I'm really excited about it because I go

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and I have the opportunity to go into

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real detail but with these cases in a

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way that I haven't been able to before

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yeah how do you person how do you find

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out about your cases I mean do people

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come to you and say Preston I had an

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experience last night

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well yeah actually I mean there's a wide

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variety I get a number of cases right

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I go speaking at conventions and people

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come to hear me speak and I mean one of

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the cases in the book valving the Navy

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medic

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you heard me speaking down in San Diego

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and he kept me up towards I'd showed a

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picture of a praying mantis type et he

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said oh yeah it's very close to what I

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saw but a slightly different and

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proceeded to tell me this amazing

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encounter he had where he was actually

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taken from a Navy ship so he's a great

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witness I always love it when I go to a

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trained observer well now well open your

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bag of goodies area and tell us a little

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bit about the the incident I mean it

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certainly sounds fascinating it's a

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credible witness in involving a very

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incredible incident yeah he's absolutely

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a great witness has character references

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I've been imbued in many times this was

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back in 1981 I believed when he had his

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experience he was out the Philippines on

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this somebody somebody's either moving

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something about or scratching is

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something so maybe Mike is a little too

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close to your face or something anyway

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continue I'm sorry yeah he's a Navy

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medic great witness and his roommate was

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a personnel clerk and comes up to him

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now they became really good friends um

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one day conductor him and says you know

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what I'm a contactee I've been in touch

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with alien since I was a kid

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he's picked up many times they've taken

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me on their ships they've taken me to

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their planet I'm so on I'm Kevin you

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know the Navy medic is like mm-hmm

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he believed in UFOs but he was kind of

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skeptical to hear this coming from his

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friend but his friends like well you

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know so what his what

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Kevin said is know if this is true I

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mean I want to meet your little green

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friends and Larry I call him Larry uh

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said he would see what he could do comes

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back a couple of days later and said oh

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yeah I talk

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to them no I went to your house you

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proceeded to describe all these details

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of Kevin's house that there is no way he

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could know I don't quite follow that he

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went to his house right the aliens took

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lair he to Kevin's house and in where

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and what form

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apparently in there [\h__\h] um so what

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happened was Larry conduct Roman starts

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describing Kevin's house in detail

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Kevin's like how do you know this and

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Larry said well they took me to your

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house and they showed me this and what

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was really bizarre as all these details

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were accurate but they were like 10

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years in the past

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so this looked like you had time

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traveled and uh Larry says yeah they

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agreed you can come and meet them if you

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want they're gonna be here in a couple

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of days and they'll take you on a ride

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I'm Kevin Steen and this is some giant

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praying mantis well he didn't know that

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at this point Larry had not there is not

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describe them okay and Kevin wasn't

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taking it seriously he thought this guy

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was out of his mind well I mean you know

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offhand it does sound a little hokey to

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say the least right yeah so he's like

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okay sure hmm

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I'll go a couple of days later Larry

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comes down into the cabin he's all

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excited they're there they're up on deck

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go up on deck

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you'll see them right now so Kevin's

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like okay well it's just a short walk to

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the deck it was during the lunch hour

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you know around noon goes up on deck and

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lo and behold now this is a 600-foot

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Navy ship there's a lot of people on

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board bunch of people on the deck and he

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looks up and Dewey's do we know what do

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we know what ship it is it was uh I'd

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have to look that up okay avoid doing

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that now go ahead but uh he looks up and

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there's this giant craft says it's

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easily three times the size of the Navy

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[\h__\h] it's off on the side they're really

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beautiful covered with colored lights

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and he does what anyone should do and

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they see no something like this he runs

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to get another witness and he cannot get

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anyone's attention it's like he doesn't

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and the next thing he knows he's on this

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UFO looking down at the Navy ship which

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is rapidly receding into the distance

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this is a rather involved contact event

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I mean I could talk hours for it well

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shorten the story a little bit he was

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too scared at this point to really turn

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around so he's looking out through the

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side of the UFO which turns transparent

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and suddenly he's over his hometown you

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can see where his mom works and have

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Church you can see her writing on the

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chalkboard they screwed a few miles over

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to where his dad works as a bank

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executives again he can see through the

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UFO through the building into the center

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of the building where his dad is having

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a meeting with executives and he hears

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this voice in his head presumably be

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et's which he's still too scared to turn

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around and look at and they say your

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parents are very honorable people

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there's no idea what that means or why

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they're telling them that he says a lot

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happened he doesn't remember all of it

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but the next thing he does remember is

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he's flying over this desert area he

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sees craters on the ground he's thinking

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okay it's a bombing range what is this

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but the soils kind of gray and it

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00:13:08,530 --> 00:13:07,010
reminds him of the moon and they come up

272
00:13:10,030 --> 00:13:08,540
over the crest of a hill there and

273
00:13:13,630 --> 00:13:10,040
they're off in the distance about the

274
00:13:16,630 --> 00:13:13,640
size of a softball is the earth he says

275
00:13:20,410 --> 00:13:16,640
he nearly loosened his bowels at this

276
00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:20,420
point really freaked him out and he

277
00:13:26,140 --> 00:13:23,210
started asking questions and the ETS

278
00:13:28,540 --> 00:13:26,150
answered him telepathically as soon as

279
00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:28,550
he asked these questions yes and where

280
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:31,850
they were from and the entire room

281
00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:35,810
expanded in size it was about 50 feet

282
00:13:39,250 --> 00:13:37,970
that he could tell it now moved like

283
00:13:41,860 --> 00:13:39,260
hundreds of feet he was in the middle of

284
00:13:44,830 --> 00:13:41,870
this star chart and he saw our solar

285
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:44,840
system saw a light off way in the

286
00:13:50,350 --> 00:13:49,490
distance red and blinking and they said

287
00:13:52,990 --> 00:13:50,360
this is where we're from

288
00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:53,000
they told him all kinds of stuff I told

289
00:13:57,700 --> 00:13:55,850
him what they eat they told him they

290
00:13:59,980 --> 00:13:57,710
speak all the languages of our planets

291
00:14:01,810 --> 00:13:59,990
that they've been observing us

292
00:14:04,329 --> 00:14:01,820
for a very long time but when we started

293
00:14:07,889 --> 00:14:04,339
exploding nuclear bombs that really

294
00:14:11,410 --> 00:14:07,899
caused them to pay attention to us as

295
00:14:13,389 --> 00:14:11,420
including several other species and they

296
00:14:16,740 --> 00:14:13,399
said that when we did this started a

297
00:14:20,530 --> 00:14:16,750
countdown clock and they showed him a

298
00:14:23,110 --> 00:14:20,540
full and full color 3d all these

299
00:14:25,389 --> 00:14:23,120
disasters that would happen they said

300
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:25,399
this is your destiny this will happen

301
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:28,370
and they showed him lots of hurricanes

302
00:14:37,300 --> 00:14:34,490
earthquakes mining disasters all kinds

303
00:14:40,210 --> 00:14:37,310
of disasters tornadoes mostly hurricanes

304
00:14:42,490 --> 00:14:40,220
he said which I find interesting and now

305
00:14:44,590 --> 00:14:42,500
that we're having all these hurricanes

306
00:14:49,420 --> 00:14:44,600
he asked about God they said we will not

307
00:14:52,420 --> 00:14:49,430
discuss religion race or politics which

308
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:52,430
I found interesting so yeah they told

309
00:14:58,180 --> 00:14:53,810
him a lot of stuff he asked about

310
00:15:00,490 --> 00:14:58,190
Roswell they said yes it was real they

311
00:15:02,290 --> 00:15:00,500
said they're doing very limited they're

312
00:15:04,750 --> 00:15:02,300
in contact with our government and all

313
00:15:06,690 --> 00:15:04,760
the other major governments did they say

314
00:15:08,710 --> 00:15:06,700
did they say where they came from

315
00:15:11,230 --> 00:15:08,720
well they told him the name of the

316
00:15:13,180 --> 00:15:11,240
planet or the star he wasn't sure which

317
00:15:17,050 --> 00:15:13,190
but couldn't pronounce it said it was

318
00:15:19,900 --> 00:15:17,060
just long nonsense sounding word and I

319
00:15:21,190 --> 00:15:19,910
couldn't really even remember it but

320
00:15:22,210 --> 00:15:21,200
finally he gets the courage you know

321
00:15:24,550 --> 00:15:22,220
he's like what do you guys look like

322
00:15:28,660 --> 00:15:24,560
they said well we're not little and

323
00:15:31,269 --> 00:15:28,670
we're not green our parents know some

324
00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:31,279
people do find frightened so finally

325
00:15:35,650 --> 00:15:33,890
just turns around and he sees these guys

326
00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:35,660
in they are you know the praying mantis

327
00:15:40,449 --> 00:15:38,930
type we hear about except they are a

328
00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:40,459
little different

329
00:15:47,079 --> 00:15:45,290
these guys are 15 feet tall now when he

330
00:15:48,730 --> 00:15:47,089
said that I thought okay I've heard nine

331
00:15:52,990 --> 00:15:48,740
feet that's what I usually hear eight

332
00:15:55,900 --> 00:15:53,000
nine seven occasionally 10 I tried to

333
00:15:57,610 --> 00:15:55,910
talk him down he says no no no they one

334
00:16:00,130 --> 00:15:57,620
of them got up they were sitting on

335
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:00,140
these kind of stone marble chairs or

336
00:16:04,810 --> 00:16:02,450
something and it bounded towards and

337
00:16:06,340 --> 00:16:04,820
took three steps across the room stood

338
00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:06,350
right next to him and started fussing

339
00:16:11,260 --> 00:16:09,650
with this console which was you know up

340
00:16:13,210 --> 00:16:11,270
to his almost his neck his chest

341
00:16:13,850 --> 00:16:13,220
actually much too high for a normal

342
00:16:15,950 --> 00:16:13,860
person

343
00:16:21,020 --> 00:16:15,960
and he says they were more than twice as

344
00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:21,030
high he's like 15 feet tall looks like a

345
00:16:27,230 --> 00:16:23,810
basketball board tall ma'am

346
00:16:28,550 --> 00:16:27,240
huge huge eyes said one of their

347
00:16:32,900 --> 00:16:28,560
eyeballs was about as big as a

348
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:32,910
basketball and just radiated wisdom and

349
00:16:37,430 --> 00:16:35,970
intelligence and completely freaked him

350
00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:37,440
out he thought he was gonna become a

351
00:16:45,820 --> 00:16:42,450
specimen they turned him but would you

352
00:16:50,660 --> 00:16:45,830
like to see our planet and he said no I

353
00:16:52,910 --> 00:16:50,670
want to go home oh my gosh I'm like I

354
00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:52,920
guess I understand I'd like to think

355
00:16:58,460 --> 00:16:56,730
that I would let's go but you know he

356
00:17:02,660 --> 00:16:58,470
says that he was completely freaking out

357
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:02,670
just wanted to get out of there and one

358
00:17:07,730 --> 00:17:04,290
of them reached out grabbed his shoulder

359
00:17:11,140 --> 00:17:07,740
and he blacked out woke up he's back on

360
00:17:14,110 --> 00:17:11,150
the [\h__\h] he's now back in his cabin he's

361
00:17:18,170 --> 00:17:14,120
profusely sweating he's hyperventilating

362
00:17:21,650 --> 00:17:18,180
he's a stop screaming he knows and jumps

363
00:17:25,100 --> 00:17:21,660
up and his roommate whips open the

364
00:17:27,230 --> 00:17:25,110
curtain that's around his bed flashes

365
00:17:31,490 --> 00:17:27,240
this huge ear-splitting grin and says so

366
00:17:34,850 --> 00:17:31,500
how did you like your ride hmm well he

367
00:17:36,790 --> 00:17:34,860
didn't like it he was very upset forgot

368
00:17:41,390 --> 00:17:36,800
most of what happened actually and

369
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:41,400
refused to talk to Larry ever again hmm

370
00:17:49,130 --> 00:17:44,610
a lot of the lot of the aspects of this

371
00:17:51,470 --> 00:17:49,140
story is is so familiar from you know

372
00:17:56,860 --> 00:17:51,480
hundreds if not thousands of other cases

373
00:18:00,320 --> 00:17:56,870
you know I mean the the aspect of

374
00:18:01,730 --> 00:18:00,330
possible time travel is the first thing

375
00:18:05,660 --> 00:18:01,740
that comes to my mind you know when he

376
00:18:08,300 --> 00:18:05,670
said that his his friend did you know

377
00:18:10,970 --> 00:18:08,310
visitor disease what was it his house is

378
00:18:12,770 --> 00:18:10,980
cabin and better you know gay gave the

379
00:18:15,140 --> 00:18:12,780
details that you know like 10 years in

380
00:18:17,930 --> 00:18:15,150
the past so I mean you know how many

381
00:18:20,090 --> 00:18:17,940
other cases have you run across it you

382
00:18:21,950 --> 00:18:20,100
know with just you know almost the same

383
00:18:26,779 --> 00:18:21,960
kind of story you know the the the

384
00:18:29,090 --> 00:18:26,789
the creatures may be different but the

385
00:18:32,090 --> 00:18:29,100
stories always sound pretty much the

386
00:18:34,369 --> 00:18:32,100
same yeah I liked his story I mean

387
00:18:36,169 --> 00:18:34,379
because he way was a great witness you

388
00:18:38,690 --> 00:18:36,179
remembered it very vividly he was a

389
00:18:40,340 --> 00:18:38,700
lucid speaker and it had all the

390
00:18:42,039 --> 00:18:40,350
elements on them I talked to someone

391
00:18:44,570 --> 00:18:42,049
they'll remember bits and pieces

392
00:18:48,289 --> 00:18:44,580
sometimes through hypnosis this was

393
00:18:51,230 --> 00:18:48,299
fully consciously recalled so he had all

394
00:18:53,869 --> 00:18:51,240
these a bunch of stuff working you know

395
00:18:57,710 --> 00:18:53,879
for him to make his story sort of unique

396
00:19:00,379 --> 00:18:57,720
Preston do you use the hypnosis I've

397
00:19:04,029 --> 00:19:00,389
referred people to it I generally don't

398
00:19:07,879 --> 00:19:04,039
unless they're having panic attacks or

399
00:19:09,950 --> 00:19:07,889
anxiety or problems or they're dead set

400
00:19:13,430 --> 00:19:09,960
on knowing because I do believe in it I

401
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:13,440
know it works but a lot of people have

402
00:19:17,299 --> 00:19:15,210
done it not a lot but occasionally I'll

403
00:19:19,489 --> 00:19:17,309
refer someone they come back I'm like

404
00:19:21,649 --> 00:19:19,499
well yeah I recall it but now you know

405
00:19:24,980 --> 00:19:21,659
they feel a little bit ambiguous about

406
00:19:27,889 --> 00:19:24,990
it as it's not that they don't believe

407
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:27,899
it but it's a hypnotically recalled

408
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:29,490
memory and it's a little different from

409
00:19:35,149 --> 00:19:32,850
a conscious memory yeah I like I like

410
00:19:37,100 --> 00:19:35,159
the cases myself where people at least I

411
00:19:41,629 --> 00:19:37,110
say that they it you know they have a

412
00:19:45,259 --> 00:19:41,639
conscious recollection of what took

413
00:19:46,669 --> 00:19:45,269
place because hypnosis I mean I I do

414
00:19:49,159 --> 00:19:46,679
know for a fact that it can be

415
00:19:53,419 --> 00:19:49,169
misleading and of course you can

416
00:19:56,470 --> 00:19:53,429
you know guide the the subject in almost

417
00:19:58,730 --> 00:19:56,480
any direction that you you want and

418
00:20:01,399 --> 00:19:58,740
let's face it if somebody goes to a

419
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:01,409
hypnotist because they remember aspects

420
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:03,570
of their UFO experience they're going to

421
00:20:07,940 --> 00:20:05,730
come out with more aspects of their UFO

422
00:20:10,999 --> 00:20:07,950
experience whether they're legitimately

423
00:20:13,700 --> 00:20:11,009
it took place or whether they didn't and

424
00:20:16,669 --> 00:20:13,710
and how can one actually tell I mean I'm

425
00:20:19,340 --> 00:20:16,679
sure there are some individuals who are

426
00:20:21,830 --> 00:20:19,350
a little bit more accredited with using

427
00:20:24,470 --> 00:20:21,840
hypnosis and then the the others but if

428
00:20:25,850 --> 00:20:24,480
you're looking for a UFO experience

429
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:25,860
you're going to get one I remember like

430
00:20:33,279 --> 00:20:30,210
years ago the satanic cults were a big

431
00:20:35,910 --> 00:20:33,289
thing you know they were hypnotizing it

432
00:20:40,350 --> 00:20:35,920
children to tell them

433
00:20:42,570 --> 00:20:40,360
their satanic experiences and their

434
00:20:44,550 --> 00:20:42,580
abuse and and they would have you know

435
00:20:47,070 --> 00:20:44,560
they would come a concoction really far

436
00:20:49,860 --> 00:20:47,080
out the stories which would investigate

437
00:20:52,470 --> 00:20:49,870
it turned out to be just total fantasy

438
00:20:56,370 --> 00:20:52,480
and I'm afraid you do get that to some

439
00:20:58,550 --> 00:20:56,380
extent with the UFO and phenomenon but

440
00:21:03,360 --> 00:20:58,560
we certainly have enough concrete

441
00:21:06,570 --> 00:21:03,370
physical encounters that take place

442
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:06,580
going back I was going to say is 70

443
00:21:12,630 --> 00:21:09,250
years but certainly even before that

444
00:21:15,270 --> 00:21:12,640
throughout recorded history so that

445
00:21:17,850 --> 00:21:15,280
there must be some element of truth to

446
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:17,860
this now the one that you would just

447
00:21:22,980 --> 00:21:19,690
described it's out certainly sounds like

448
00:21:26,310 --> 00:21:22,990
an astral experience whether these

449
00:21:29,220 --> 00:21:26,320
prayer mantis of 15-foot tall creatures

450
00:21:31,590 --> 00:21:29,230
or actually existed and well maybe they

451
00:21:34,710 --> 00:21:31,600
live in some parallel universe we've

452
00:21:37,710 --> 00:21:34,720
talked about that on the show and it

453
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:37,720
seems to be coming up vastly more

454
00:21:41,910 --> 00:21:40,330
popular a theory that these objects and

455
00:21:45,180 --> 00:21:41,920
these creatures don't necessarily have

456
00:21:49,110 --> 00:21:45,190
to be from some other planet they could

457
00:21:51,770 --> 00:21:49,120
be some from some parallel reality here

458
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:51,780
I know them they were from a planet they

459
00:21:55,550 --> 00:21:54,010
said it was physical they said they had

460
00:21:58,260 --> 00:21:55,560
the ability to make themselves invisible

461
00:21:59,940 --> 00:21:58,270
to anyone they want to and choose

462
00:22:04,940 --> 00:21:59,950
whoever they want to see them to see

463
00:22:07,290 --> 00:22:04,950
them how far away was their planet

464
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:07,300
couldn't really tell it was all too

465
00:22:16,830 --> 00:22:13,330
disorienting for him did he have any

466
00:22:20,490 --> 00:22:16,840
further experiences after that one no

467
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:20,500
which is also kind of unusual is yeah as

468
00:22:25,650 --> 00:22:22,570
you know have this in childhood or

469
00:22:28,290 --> 00:22:25,660
throughout their lives and but he didn't

470
00:22:31,470 --> 00:22:28,300
it was just a opportune thing as a

471
00:22:33,150 --> 00:22:31,480
result I think of knowing somebody this

472
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:33,160
is definitely something that reasons

473
00:22:38,430 --> 00:22:35,770
your chance to be taken on board if you

474
00:22:42,270 --> 00:22:38,440
have a friend who is an abductee or

475
00:22:45,060 --> 00:22:42,280
coworker or a family member well it

476
00:22:47,700 --> 00:22:45,070
certainly is certainly a an elaborate

477
00:22:52,070 --> 00:22:47,710
story and that we got our first break

478
00:22:52,080 --> 00:23:00,780
[Music]

479
00:23:07,510 --> 00:23:04,930
now back to exploring the bazaar with

480
00:23:10,510 --> 00:23:07,520
two of the most electrifying researchers

481
00:23:16,120 --> 00:23:10,520
in the Paranoid your hosts Timothy

482
00:23:17,860 --> 00:23:16,130
Bethany and Taylor Swift and welcome

483
00:23:21,490 --> 00:23:17,870
back to exploring bizarre I'm Tim

484
00:23:24,460 --> 00:23:21,500
Schwarz and tonight we are talking with

485
00:23:27,190 --> 00:23:24,470
Preston Dennett and with us on the line

486
00:23:29,410 --> 00:23:27,200
now is Larry Hancock let me give you a

487
00:23:31,630 --> 00:23:29,420
little bit of an introduction here Larry

488
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:31,640
Hancock brings his formal training in

489
00:23:36,580 --> 00:23:33,770
history and cultural anthropology to his

490
00:23:40,210 --> 00:23:36,590
research and writing on Cold War history

491
00:23:42,100 --> 00:23:40,220
and national security subjects Larry is

492
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:42,110
a graduate of the University of New

493
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:44,170
Mexico and he's earned a BA with honors

494
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:46,490
majoring in history cultural

495
00:23:52,030 --> 00:23:49,970
anthropology and education now his most

496
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:52,040
recent book that's we're going to be

497
00:23:58,360 --> 00:23:55,450
talking about tonight is UFOs are

498
00:24:01,480 --> 00:23:58,370
unidentified the National intelligent

499
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:01,490
problem of UFOs Larry thank you very

500
00:24:05,290 --> 00:24:02,810
much for being with us tonight on

501
00:24:06,870 --> 00:24:05,300
exploring the bizarre oh it's great to

502
00:24:10,690 --> 00:24:06,880
be here thank you

503
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:10,700
well okay now the the first question and

504
00:24:16,930 --> 00:24:14,090
I'm sure that every host has asked you

505
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:16,940
this is that you wrote this book

506
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:21,050
looking at your other books that that

507
00:24:27,460 --> 00:24:24,050
you have written shadow warfare a

508
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:27,470
surprise attack books like that what

509
00:24:34,540 --> 00:24:30,050
made you decide to write a book about

510
00:24:38,530 --> 00:24:34,550
UFOs it seems to be at least on first

511
00:24:40,780 --> 00:24:38,540
impressions a little bit outside of what

512
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:40,790
you have previously resourced and I've

513
00:24:46,090 --> 00:24:43,690
written about it outside my box

514
00:24:48,850 --> 00:24:46,100
absolutely there's no doubt about it um

515
00:24:52,300 --> 00:24:48,860
I think what it was is I've been writing

516
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:52,310
on Cold War history and and national

517
00:24:58,150 --> 00:24:55,250
security intelligence subjects for well

518
00:25:00,580 --> 00:24:58,160
over a decade now and I finally figured

519
00:25:03,139 --> 00:25:00,590
that I'd had enough experience to the

520
00:25:05,029 --> 00:25:03,149
intelligence community to go back

521
00:25:07,249 --> 00:25:05,039
and revisit a subject that had

522
00:25:10,369 --> 00:25:07,259
interested me literally forever

523
00:25:13,909 --> 00:25:10,379
I I've been interested in the subject of

524
00:25:19,940 --> 00:25:13,919
UFOs since around 1964 I was an early

525
00:25:22,579 --> 00:25:19,950
member of of a PR o-- of NICAP and it

526
00:25:24,619 --> 00:25:22,589
was a subject that I had had followed

527
00:25:26,719 --> 00:25:24,629
over the decades and finally I looked at

528
00:25:29,419 --> 00:25:26,729
my bookcase one day and I said you know

529
00:25:32,089 --> 00:25:29,429
I've got like 200 books here on

530
00:25:34,430 --> 00:25:32,099
intelligence and I've got 200 books on

531
00:25:40,789 --> 00:25:34,440
UFOs maybe I should use that part of the

532
00:25:43,609 --> 00:25:40,799
book case well going through your book I

533
00:25:45,649 --> 00:25:43,619
mean you have done just just fantastic

534
00:25:50,389 --> 00:25:45,659
research and really a lot of research

535
00:25:54,339 --> 00:25:50,399
that goes beyond what you know other UFO

536
00:25:59,599 --> 00:25:54,349
investigators have attempted to tackle

537
00:26:03,259 --> 00:25:59,609
so what is it about the UFO phenomena

538
00:26:06,529 --> 00:26:03,269
that makes it unique then from some of

539
00:26:10,219 --> 00:26:06,539
these other you know Cold War aspects

540
00:26:11,810 --> 00:26:10,229
and in you know intelligence scenarios

541
00:26:15,139 --> 00:26:11,820
you know that took place especially

542
00:26:17,180 --> 00:26:15,149
after the end of World War two yeah I

543
00:26:21,049 --> 00:26:17,190
think one of the things that makes it

544
00:26:23,419 --> 00:26:21,059
unique is that it it's not unique in

545
00:26:26,299 --> 00:26:23,429
that the intelligence community

546
00:26:28,279 --> 00:26:26,309
especially military intelligence tried

547
00:26:31,789 --> 00:26:28,289
to tackle it the way they did everything

548
00:26:34,399 --> 00:26:31,799
else I mean as a as a potential threat

549
00:26:36,979 --> 00:26:34,409
I'm the standard standard practice is to

550
00:26:39,739 --> 00:26:36,989
look at these things as ask the question

551
00:26:43,430 --> 00:26:39,749
is it a threat can I identify it if so

552
00:26:46,249 --> 00:26:43,440
can i exploit it it's it's all in terms

553
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:46,259
of basic intelligence practices and in

554
00:26:50,570 --> 00:26:48,690
all of these other areas you can look at

555
00:26:52,879 --> 00:26:50,580
what the community did and how they

556
00:26:55,249 --> 00:26:52,889
tackled it and see their results and

557
00:26:57,829 --> 00:26:55,259
basically say okay they approached it

558
00:27:00,619 --> 00:26:57,839
they did their job they got it right or

559
00:27:02,989 --> 00:27:00,629
they got it wrong in terms of this

560
00:27:05,810 --> 00:27:02,999
subject you look at it and you see that

561
00:27:09,169 --> 00:27:05,820
they did tackle it they tackled it very

562
00:27:11,479 --> 00:27:09,179
seriously and they literally couldn't

563
00:27:13,879 --> 00:27:11,489
get their standard techniques and

564
00:27:16,430 --> 00:27:13,889
methods to work on it and eventually

565
00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:16,440
they kind of threw up their hands and

566
00:27:22,670 --> 00:27:20,130
said you know we don't see it's a threat

567
00:27:25,940 --> 00:27:22,680
we can't identify it we can't locate it

568
00:27:27,530 --> 00:27:25,950
we can't exploit it and the Russians are

569
00:27:30,470 --> 00:27:27,540
still there and we need to get back to

570
00:27:33,890 --> 00:27:30,480
our other job so it it's different

571
00:27:37,070 --> 00:27:33,900
because they actually they even abandon

572
00:27:41,860 --> 00:27:37,080
the project both both the Air Force and

573
00:27:45,220 --> 00:27:41,870
the CIA literally it at a point in time

574
00:27:48,770 --> 00:27:45,230
exited the field and that's that strange

575
00:27:50,330 --> 00:27:48,780
well you know you know what fascinates

576
00:27:54,500 --> 00:27:50,340
me about this you you have done an

577
00:27:57,730 --> 00:27:54,510
incredible amount of research is the

578
00:28:02,990 --> 00:27:57,740
difference in attitude on the part of

579
00:28:06,770 --> 00:28:03,000
the the lack of better name authorities

580
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:06,780
the CIA and the Air Force in those early

581
00:28:14,450 --> 00:28:09,210
days which totally seemed to have a

582
00:28:18,470 --> 00:28:14,460
dwindling years like you have a quote

583
00:28:20,270 --> 00:28:18,480
here from major general GP Cabot the

584
00:28:22,810 --> 00:28:20,280
director of intelligence the US Air

585
00:28:26,420 --> 00:28:22,820
Force right that he made on November 3rd

586
00:28:28,820 --> 00:28:26,430
1948 the conclusion appears inescapable

587
00:28:31,730 --> 00:28:28,830
that some type of flying object has been

588
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:31,740
cited identification and the origin of

589
00:28:37,610 --> 00:28:35,010
these objects is not discernible at this

590
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:37,620
headquarters I mean there's so many

591
00:28:45,790 --> 00:28:40,730
positive statements that you put forward

592
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:45,800
and yet the if you contact the CIA today

593
00:28:49,730 --> 00:28:48,090
isn't it true that their attitude would

594
00:28:52,310 --> 00:28:49,740
be totally different and they would say

595
00:28:55,310 --> 00:28:52,320
that oh we were responsible for a lot of

596
00:28:57,590 --> 00:28:55,320
the sightings high altitude cell type

597
00:29:00,620 --> 00:28:57,600
airplanes and so forth which is total

598
00:29:03,170 --> 00:29:00,630
nonsense because in a lot of these cases

599
00:29:04,970 --> 00:29:03,180
pilots were circled by these objects

600
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:04,980
we're not talking about a military craft

601
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:09,090
that was much higher up in an altitude

602
00:29:16,420 --> 00:29:13,530
than these air air air craft where you

603
00:29:21,110 --> 00:29:16,430
know the civilian planes and the

604
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:21,120
airliners oh it is and I mean it's

605
00:29:26,270 --> 00:29:23,850
fascinating sort of like the the CIA

606
00:29:28,010 --> 00:29:26,280
issued a historical paper and said oh

607
00:29:30,980 --> 00:29:28,020
well all of those things were

608
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:30,990
really just missing misidentifications

609
00:29:36,530 --> 00:29:34,650
of our u2's and our sr-71s and you're

610
00:29:39,380 --> 00:29:36,540
reading the documents and you're going

611
00:29:42,530 --> 00:29:39,390
oh that's interesting so those actually

612
00:29:45,590 --> 00:29:42,540
came down and engaged with interceptors

613
00:29:49,010 --> 00:29:45,600
and played tag with them and they circle

614
00:29:51,830 --> 00:29:49,020
commercial airliners you know what's

615
00:29:56,870 --> 00:29:51,840
going on so it makes no sense there's if

616
00:30:00,049 --> 00:29:56,880
you read well it's a subject it's a

617
00:30:04,910 --> 00:30:00,059
subject I mean it's an attempt to pacify

618
00:30:06,410 --> 00:30:04,920
the the public it's where the pacifier

619
00:30:11,090 --> 00:30:06,420
public relations

620
00:30:12,890 --> 00:30:11,100
because okay there were a lot of people

621
00:30:15,020 --> 00:30:12,900
that have no interest in this I mean I

622
00:30:16,130 --> 00:30:15,030
have a lot of friends oh yeah UFOs okay

623
00:30:19,190 --> 00:30:16,140
I know you know they know I've been

624
00:30:22,430 --> 00:30:19,200
involved in this for a half a century or

625
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:22,440
more particularly interest it's not like

626
00:30:26,510 --> 00:30:24,210
the alien Raiders have come down and

627
00:30:28,940 --> 00:30:26,520
either abducted them or you know

628
00:30:31,100 --> 00:30:28,950
burnt down their their homes or anything

629
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:31,110
like that and of course there are people

630
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:33,570
that have had the you know the firsthand

631
00:30:37,490 --> 00:30:35,970
their first and experiencers and they

632
00:30:41,410 --> 00:30:37,500
know that something is going on and

633
00:30:44,870 --> 00:30:41,420
you've got a multitude of pilots and

634
00:30:47,570 --> 00:30:44,880
police officers and incredible you know

635
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:47,580
witnesses who would normally under any

636
00:30:52,010 --> 00:30:49,410
other circumstances tell you it's a

637
00:30:55,340 --> 00:30:52,020
bunch of hogwash but when the pie smacks

638
00:30:56,930 --> 00:30:55,350
them right in the the face they realized

639
00:31:00,710 --> 00:30:56,940
that heck they're they've been dead

640
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:00,720
wrong so I I even wonder sometimes with

641
00:31:04,910 --> 00:31:02,490
putting out these statements what it

642
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:04,920
hopes to accomplish because I doubt if

643
00:31:11,690 --> 00:31:09,210
it's changing anybody's mind no I don't

644
00:31:14,900 --> 00:31:11,700
think they change anybody's mind and I

645
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:14,910
think I mean especially during the 60s

646
00:31:20,390 --> 00:31:17,730
they got to be just plain laughable and

647
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:20,400
nobody believed them but it's almost

648
00:31:25,940 --> 00:31:23,250
like an exit strategy it's the same way

649
00:31:28,190 --> 00:31:25,950
the Air Force the Air Force would come

650
00:31:30,049 --> 00:31:28,200
back to you and say well you know we do

651
00:31:33,230 --> 00:31:30,059
have three or four percent of these

652
00:31:36,049 --> 00:31:33,240
things that are absolutely unknown we

653
00:31:38,090 --> 00:31:36,059
just we have no answer for them but

654
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:38,100
don't worry because that's only three or

655
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:41,730
four percent and and that's so

656
00:31:44,810 --> 00:31:43,410
I mean it's just like what do you what

657
00:31:46,310 --> 00:31:44,820
are you gonna do with them then I were

658
00:31:49,700 --> 00:31:46,320
just going to put them over in this file

659
00:31:52,460 --> 00:31:49,710
it says unknown okay that doesn't make

660
00:31:55,220 --> 00:31:52,470
me feel comfortable but at the

661
00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:55,230
disconnect between the documents the air

662
00:32:00,680 --> 00:31:57,810
forces last public statement when they

663
00:32:03,230 --> 00:32:00,690
discontinued Blue Book basically said

664
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:03,240
well we're we're abandoning this because

665
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:05,490
we've discovered that there's there's no

666
00:32:10,730 --> 00:32:08,250
real threat yet I can show you a

667
00:32:13,070 --> 00:32:10,740
half-a-dozen documents that I cite in

668
00:32:17,510 --> 00:32:13,080
the book from the Strategic Air Command

669
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:17,520
where you've got and no red generating

670
00:32:23,570 --> 00:32:20,970
memos that describe in the memo line a

671
00:32:25,660 --> 00:32:23,580
national security threat I was like do

672
00:32:28,730 --> 00:32:25,670
you guys not read your own own

673
00:32:32,090 --> 00:32:28,740
communications it was an out they

674
00:32:33,110 --> 00:32:32,100
literally had to abandon it because they

675
00:32:36,590 --> 00:32:33,120
couldn't deal with it

676
00:32:40,670 --> 00:32:36,600
welcome 20 other assessment can you

677
00:32:45,230 --> 00:32:40,680
point to a specific incident or a

678
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:45,240
specific date and say this is where they

679
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:49,530
change their uptight attitude for some

680
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:52,290
reason perhaps obvious or perhaps not

681
00:32:58,970 --> 00:32:54,450
obvious I mean I I would think in the

682
00:33:02,330 --> 00:32:58,980
1952 the summer a quote-unquote invasion

683
00:33:04,670 --> 00:33:02,340
over Washington DC were if they admitted

684
00:33:06,380 --> 00:33:04,680
that these things were a real and a

685
00:33:07,330 --> 00:33:06,390
physicalist sense they would also have

686
00:33:09,410 --> 00:33:07,340
to RIA

687
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:09,420
reveal the fact that they have

688
00:33:14,270 --> 00:33:11,970
absolutely no control over their coming

689
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:14,280
and going III would think I mean my own

690
00:33:19,550 --> 00:33:17,250
assessment of this is that's a great

691
00:33:21,830 --> 00:33:19,560
deal of reason for the the secrecy the

692
00:33:23,900 --> 00:33:21,840
fact that there might be people from

693
00:33:28,070 --> 00:33:23,910
other planets I don't think it's too

694
00:33:30,620 --> 00:33:28,080
shocking to anybody any any more but the

695
00:33:34,070 --> 00:33:30,630
fact that we've got no control over it

696
00:33:36,530 --> 00:33:34,080
is perhaps you know more shocking than

697
00:33:37,820 --> 00:33:36,540
anything well and there's a political

698
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:37,830
aspect to it

699
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:39,690
because you hit exactly the right

700
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:44,010
timeframe it's just in 1952 it wasn't

701
00:33:49,940 --> 00:33:46,290
just Washington DC there was a whole

702
00:33:52,610 --> 00:33:49,950
wave of literally fruitless intercepts

703
00:33:55,580 --> 00:33:52,620
up and down the Northeast quarter

704
00:33:57,919 --> 00:33:55,590
strategic corridor where they would

705
00:34:01,519 --> 00:33:57,929
they were able to put interceptors right

706
00:34:02,930 --> 00:34:01,529
with unknown objects and they couldn't

707
00:34:04,940 --> 00:34:02,940
deal with them they would just fly

708
00:34:08,389 --> 00:34:04,950
circles around them they would evade

709
00:34:10,639 --> 00:34:08,399
them and one of the things I one of the

710
00:34:13,070 --> 00:34:10,649
reasons I really think it got taken off

711
00:34:16,669 --> 00:34:13,080
the table was this was just at the point

712
00:34:18,950 --> 00:34:16,679
in time 53:54 where the Eisenhower

713
00:34:22,250 --> 00:34:18,960
administration was making the decision

714
00:34:25,310 --> 00:34:22,260
on whether to commit itself to the sage

715
00:34:29,589 --> 00:34:25,320
program this this huge air defense

716
00:34:33,139 --> 00:34:29,599
program of radar chains new interceptors

717
00:34:35,149 --> 00:34:33,149
anti-aircraft missiles but if you looked

718
00:34:37,970 --> 00:34:35,159
at the actual reports are coming in from

719
00:34:40,250 --> 00:34:37,980
radar tracking for hundreds of miles

720
00:34:42,889 --> 00:34:40,260
across the nation of something going ten

721
00:34:45,349 --> 00:34:42,899
thousand miles an hour or twelve

722
00:34:47,570 --> 00:34:45,359
thousand miles an hour tracked by

723
00:34:49,490 --> 00:34:47,580
multiple stations if you look at some of

724
00:34:52,220 --> 00:34:49,500
those intercepts how are they going to

725
00:34:54,500 --> 00:34:52,230
justify that budget when clearly

726
00:34:58,960 --> 00:34:54,510
everything they want to build still

727
00:35:03,980 --> 00:34:58,970
can't deal with these things well it was

728
00:35:09,470 --> 00:35:03,990
around 1952 in the whole Washington UFO

729
00:35:12,290 --> 00:35:09,480
wave that didn't they didn't it frighten

730
00:35:14,270 --> 00:35:12,300
the military not so much that there were

731
00:35:17,930 --> 00:35:14,280
strange objects being seen in the skies

732
00:35:20,349 --> 00:35:17,940
but phone lines and other types of

733
00:35:24,130 --> 00:35:20,359
communications were being flooded by

734
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:24,140
people who were seeing these things and

735
00:35:30,079 --> 00:35:27,570
what frightened them was the fact that

736
00:35:32,810 --> 00:35:30,089
possibly the Soviet Union could take

737
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:32,820
advantage of such a situation create a

738
00:35:36,859 --> 00:35:33,330
false

739
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:36,869
you know like UFO events take down our

740
00:35:43,579 --> 00:35:40,970
communications and very easily you know

741
00:35:46,630 --> 00:35:43,589
Obama's our or whatever the fear was at

742
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:46,640
the time the psychological warfare

743
00:35:51,290 --> 00:35:49,170
aspect that you're talking about is is

744
00:35:54,140 --> 00:35:51,300
mentioned in both the Air Force and CIA

745
00:35:57,079 --> 00:35:54,150
reports but I will I will tell you when

746
00:36:01,060 --> 00:35:57,089
you read it it's stunning to read the

747
00:36:04,599 --> 00:36:01,070
CIA's office of scientific investigation

748
00:36:07,910 --> 00:36:04,609
report that was submitted that fall and

749
00:36:09,050 --> 00:36:07,920
that was not what really worried them it

750
00:36:11,510 --> 00:36:09,060
got to be

751
00:36:14,230 --> 00:36:11,520
what replaced it but what really worried

752
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:14,240
them at the time was the patterns of

753
00:36:20,420 --> 00:36:16,890
incidents being reported over the atomic

754
00:36:23,180 --> 00:36:20,430
warfare complex that was in the first

755
00:36:25,940 --> 00:36:23,190
draft of their memorandum they go on

756
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:25,950
record saying the reason that this is a

757
00:36:30,980 --> 00:36:28,410
national security threat which we need

758
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:30,990
to take to the National Security Council

759
00:36:36,770 --> 00:36:33,930
right now it's an imminent threat is

760
00:36:40,460 --> 00:36:36,780
because of the pattern of behavior and

761
00:36:43,670 --> 00:36:40,470
reconnaissance of these objects over our

762
00:36:46,670 --> 00:36:43,680
atomic warfare complex sites within

763
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:46,680
three months it had been changed so that

764
00:36:50,690 --> 00:36:48,810
the leading concern was the

765
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:50,700
psychological warfare that you'd

766
00:36:56,510 --> 00:36:53,970
mentioned and in all honesty when you

767
00:36:59,180 --> 00:36:56,520
look at the actual data and the internal

768
00:37:03,620 --> 00:36:59,190
memorandum that's not what worried them

769
00:37:06,860 --> 00:37:03,630
what really worried them were those Sat

770
00:37:10,010 --> 00:37:06,870
based sightings the manufacturing base

771
00:37:13,730 --> 00:37:10,020
psyche that Oak Ridge and and Hanford

772
00:37:16,700 --> 00:37:13,740
and that's where they saw the pattern

773
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:16,710
that disturbed them but they didn't know

774
00:37:20,630 --> 00:37:18,930
how to handle it and basically they

775
00:37:23,420 --> 00:37:20,640
backed off from it and I know that's

776
00:37:25,700 --> 00:37:23,430
that's a strong accusation but you find

777
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:25,710
that turnaround right there at the end

778
00:37:33,350 --> 00:37:30,210
of 1952 and in 1953 with the Robertson

779
00:37:37,370 --> 00:37:33,360
Commission now was that pattern

780
00:37:40,550 --> 00:37:37,380
consistent of UFOs being seen over you

781
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:40,560
know high security areas not only was it

782
00:37:45,290 --> 00:37:42,690
consistent and that's that's what I get

783
00:37:48,530 --> 00:37:45,300
into in the later third of the book it

784
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:48,540
was an evolving pattern first what you

785
00:37:56,630 --> 00:37:52,530
saw were very very obvious daytime

786
00:37:59,960 --> 00:37:56,640
sightings a lot of daytime sightings low

787
00:38:04,220 --> 00:37:59,970
altitudes even down at ground level at

788
00:38:08,030 --> 00:38:04,230
the radioactive material manufacturing

789
00:38:10,570 --> 00:38:08,040
sites then the pattern shifts to where

790
00:38:13,910 --> 00:38:10,580
the bombs are actually being assembled

791
00:38:15,620 --> 00:38:13,920
and then later the pattern shifts to

792
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:15,630
where the bombs are actually being

793
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:18,090
stored at these distributed queue sites

794
00:38:23,060 --> 00:38:19,650
around the nation

795
00:38:26,030 --> 00:38:23,070
including an intense level of activity

796
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:26,040
at Killeen Base in Texas and then

797
00:38:31,970 --> 00:38:28,890
finally the pattern shifts again and

798
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:31,980
it's as if these unknowns are literally

799
00:38:37,430 --> 00:38:34,770
following the weapons and we're talking

800
00:38:39,020 --> 00:38:37,440
about Megaton class weapons all the

801
00:38:41,930 --> 00:38:39,030
previous areas where they're being

802
00:38:44,090 --> 00:38:41,940
reported are no longer reported the

803
00:38:46,850 --> 00:38:44,100
sightings all shift especially the low

804
00:38:49,670 --> 00:38:46,860
altitude and they shift out first to the

805
00:38:53,090 --> 00:38:49,680
SAC bomber bases and the atomic weapons

806
00:38:56,090 --> 00:38:53,100
storage sites and then to the new ICBM

807
00:39:00,440 --> 00:38:56,100
complexes and it's so there is a very

808
00:39:02,540 --> 00:39:00,450
clear pattern over some 15 years but

809
00:39:06,100 --> 00:39:02,550
what makes it especially interesting is

810
00:39:10,300 --> 00:39:06,110
it's not one pattern it shows

811
00:39:13,850 --> 00:39:10,310
indications of trending and some type of

812
00:39:16,940 --> 00:39:13,860
intelligent reconnaissance surveillance

813
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:16,950
because it it's not occurring everywhere

814
00:39:22,940 --> 00:39:19,410
all the time and it's also totally

815
00:39:26,090 --> 00:39:22,950
disconnected from the national waves of

816
00:39:29,180 --> 00:39:26,100
UFO sightings when when the media is

817
00:39:32,030 --> 00:39:29,190
talking about UFO waves it's not when

818
00:39:34,910 --> 00:39:32,040
these things are time current or atomic

819
00:39:37,100 --> 00:39:34,920
warfare sites so it gives you some real

820
00:39:39,530 --> 00:39:37,110
indication that's what going on in those

821
00:39:44,510 --> 00:39:39,540
sites is is very real and not media

822
00:39:47,780 --> 00:39:44,520
driven yet these are obviously

823
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:47,790
observable patterns and yet the military

824
00:39:53,210 --> 00:39:50,610
after a while like you said it just

825
00:39:59,270 --> 00:39:53,220
basically gave up and threw their hands

826
00:40:02,320 --> 00:39:59,280
up but if if these sightings were of you

827
00:40:06,140 --> 00:40:02,330
know say like Soviet recon versus

828
00:40:09,020 --> 00:40:06,150
aircraft the the reaction would be you

829
00:40:12,260 --> 00:40:09,030
know completely different so is it

830
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:12,270
because they classified this as an

831
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:15,690
unknown phenomena that they are at least

832
00:40:23,870 --> 00:40:22,050
at least publicly took the went the way

833
00:40:24,860 --> 00:40:23,880
of just you know ignoring it nothing to

834
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:24,870
see here folks

835
00:40:31,100 --> 00:40:29,010
you know go home it was method I know

836
00:40:32,610 --> 00:40:31,110
that's trying strange to say it would be

837
00:40:35,130 --> 00:40:32,620
interesting if it were more

838
00:40:36,690 --> 00:40:35,140
mysterious or sensational but but the

839
00:40:39,690 --> 00:40:36,700
Air Force just took the approach that

840
00:40:43,260 --> 00:40:39,700
they would treat each sighting and each

841
00:40:45,500 --> 00:40:43,270
report by itself in isolation they did

842
00:40:48,780 --> 00:40:45,510
very little pattern analysis and

843
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:48,790
actually in 1952 when President Truman

844
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:52,210
handed it off to the CIA that's what the

845
00:40:56,580 --> 00:40:54,490
CIA critiqued them for they said what

846
00:40:58,710 --> 00:40:56,590
are you doing you're collecting data on

847
00:41:00,420 --> 00:40:58,720
each incident but you're not looking at

848
00:41:02,850 --> 00:41:00,430
the patterns and that's never going to

849
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:02,860
help you solve the problem here's what

850
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:05,650
we need to do you guys need to give it

851
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:08,170
to us and we need to create a project

852
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:10,210
and we need to kick it up to the

853
00:41:14,460 --> 00:41:12,970
National Security Council and we need to

854
00:41:17,220 --> 00:41:14,470
get these groups that are under our

855
00:41:19,830 --> 00:41:17,230
control to look at it over a long term

856
00:41:23,610 --> 00:41:19,840
to do the kind of studies pattern

857
00:41:26,970 --> 00:41:23,620
studies we do and the Air Force really

858
00:41:30,450 --> 00:41:26,980
pushed back now it's is there what is

859
00:41:32,790 --> 00:41:30,460
there one individual in the CIA or the

860
00:41:35,550 --> 00:41:32,800
military you can point to and say was

861
00:41:39,900 --> 00:41:35,560
responsible for that attitude of wanting

862
00:41:42,630 --> 00:41:39,910
to hoist it up a level the office of

863
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:42,640
scientific intelligence that the head of

864
00:41:48,060 --> 00:41:44,610
the Office of Scientific intelligence

865
00:41:51,870 --> 00:41:48,070
wrote a series of memoranda to the to

866
00:41:54,390 --> 00:41:51,880
the CIA director recommending that the

867
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:54,400
director actually did put it on the

868
00:41:59,790 --> 00:41:56,610
agenda for the National Security Council

869
00:42:03,120 --> 00:41:59,800
but it looks like he basically watered

870
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:03,130
down the whole thing and and it's hard

871
00:42:08,750 --> 00:42:06,010
to say that from the documents all of a

872
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:08,760
sudden what was an imminent mergency

873
00:42:14,220 --> 00:42:11,770
becomes very much a bureaucratic thing

874
00:42:16,380 --> 00:42:14,230
like well okay we should take this to

875
00:42:19,020 --> 00:42:16,390
the National Security Council but I'm

876
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:19,030
not going to propose it unless you two

877
00:42:24,090 --> 00:42:21,370
agree to back me on it and the Air Force

878
00:42:27,030 --> 00:42:24,100
comes back and says well I'm not going

879
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:27,040
to put my name on this and they agree

880
00:42:31,140 --> 00:42:28,930
that they're going to take it to a panel

881
00:42:33,060 --> 00:42:31,150
of scientists and if the panel of

882
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:33,070
scientists say there's something to it

883
00:42:37,950 --> 00:42:36,010
then everybody has the backing they need

884
00:42:41,550 --> 00:42:37,960
to kick it up the chain of command

885
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:41,560
without risking their jobs and the

886
00:42:46,050 --> 00:42:45,130
scientific panel said you know we don't

887
00:42:48,900 --> 00:42:46,060
have the data

888
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:48,910
it's not this is not you don't have the

889
00:42:53,700 --> 00:42:50,410
data that we need to give you a

890
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:53,710
scientific evaluation we're not going to

891
00:42:57,180 --> 00:42:55,330
say this is a threat with what you've

892
00:42:57,930 --> 00:42:57,190
given us and everybody just backed away

893
00:43:01,310 --> 00:42:57,940
from it

894
00:43:06,090 --> 00:43:01,320
well now 21 and why did the Robinson the

895
00:43:08,730 --> 00:43:06,100
panel come about it came about in in

896
00:43:11,790 --> 00:43:08,740
during the winter it's at the end of 52

897
00:43:14,070 --> 00:43:11,800
and at the beginning of 53 and it it's a

898
00:43:17,460 --> 00:43:14,080
very fascinating thing because it came

899
00:43:20,460 --> 00:43:17,470
about as the CIA's essentially the sad

900
00:43:22,010 --> 00:43:20,470
director wanted to take this forward but

901
00:43:26,330 --> 00:43:22,020
only if he could get sufficient

902
00:43:29,010 --> 00:43:26,340
endorsement so he convened the panel and

903
00:43:31,590 --> 00:43:29,020
set it up so that if the scientists

904
00:43:34,740 --> 00:43:31,600
would back in he would take it up to the

905
00:43:38,130 --> 00:43:34,750
NSC and the president but the problem

906
00:43:41,970 --> 00:43:38,140
was he convened the panel to assess

907
00:43:44,700 --> 00:43:41,980
whether or not UFOs were a threat and an

908
00:43:47,580 --> 00:43:44,710
intelligence problem and the people they

909
00:43:50,970 --> 00:43:47,590
convene on the panel were all atomic

910
00:43:53,670 --> 00:43:50,980
physicists and atmospheric scientists

911
00:43:57,570 --> 00:43:53,680
and they looked at the whole thing for a

912
00:44:01,350 --> 00:43:57,580
total of the better part of only two

913
00:44:03,270 --> 00:44:01,360
days and basically as dr. Hynek who was

914
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:03,280
attended some of the meetings would say

915
00:44:09,150 --> 00:44:06,370
later the problem was no scientist is

916
00:44:10,050 --> 00:44:09,160
ever going to have enough data to put

917
00:44:12,750 --> 00:44:10,060
their name

918
00:44:14,940 --> 00:44:12,760
under that sort of conclusion that the

919
00:44:15,810 --> 00:44:14,950
data was not there from a scientific

920
00:44:17,940 --> 00:44:15,820
standpoint

921
00:44:21,270 --> 00:44:17,950
so they wouldn't give the CIA what it

922
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:21,280
was looking for and at that point in

923
00:44:31,170 --> 00:44:29,790
the the research set that you have done

924
00:44:33,420 --> 00:44:31,180
for this book and we only have about

925
00:44:35,610 --> 00:44:33,430
three minutes left before we have to go

926
00:44:38,820 --> 00:44:35,620
onto our next break where did you get

927
00:44:40,770 --> 00:44:38,830
the the bulk of your information for

928
00:44:43,730 --> 00:44:40,780
this book I mean how how did you go

929
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:43,740
about researching this book

930
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:48,010
well the an amazing amount of research

931
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:50,290
and the credit has to be given there

932
00:44:56,240 --> 00:44:52,570
there have been some amazing historical

933
00:45:00,150 --> 00:44:56,250
researchers in this field project 90

934
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:00,160
1947 Jan Aldrich

935
00:45:06,930 --> 00:45:03,490
they're just there are some great names

936
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:06,940
that have done the research its present

937
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:10,450
in various places but it hasn't really

938
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:14,170
been pulled together and so it was out

939
00:45:19,589 --> 00:45:17,050
there and as just were the basic data in

940
00:45:23,550 --> 00:45:19,599
the Blue Book archives yeah well this is

941
00:45:27,359 --> 00:45:23,560
this is a an amazing amazing book I mean

942
00:45:29,220 --> 00:45:27,369
it has all the material that has been

943
00:45:31,710 --> 00:45:29,230
left out of wouldn't say everybody

944
00:45:34,140 --> 00:45:31,720
else's book but it's certainly been it's

945
00:45:37,500 --> 00:45:34,150
certainly been all you know compiled all

946
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:37,510
together and I I mean I've been involved

947
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:41,530
in this for 50 you know years I've been

948
00:45:46,589 --> 00:45:45,130
carting books around since I was 14 14

949
00:45:50,190 --> 00:45:46,599
years old let me tell you it's taking a

950
00:45:52,470 --> 00:45:50,200
toll on me here but you know I I don't

951
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:52,480
think well I I guess I haven't really

952
00:45:58,290 --> 00:45:56,530
studied the government's involvement in

953
00:46:00,480 --> 00:45:58,300
this you know but yeah you think that

954
00:46:02,190 --> 00:46:00,490
everything pretty much I mean general

955
00:46:03,750 --> 00:46:02,200
twining I guess in the beginning he made

956
00:46:06,300 --> 00:46:03,760
a very positive statement that went on

957
00:46:08,790 --> 00:46:06,310
for you know like quite a number of

958
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:08,800
pages but outside of that you you seldom

959
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:11,170
hear about anybody you know when the CIA

960
00:46:18,270 --> 00:46:14,650
or the military-industrial complex who

961
00:46:21,620 --> 00:46:18,280
makes or has made the positive comments

962
00:46:24,870 --> 00:46:21,630
about this and I can see that our

963
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:24,880
station head is going to prevent us he's

964
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:27,010
partly part of it were probably part of

965
00:46:30,690 --> 00:46:29,050
the New World Order's but we'll be well

966
00:46:32,250 --> 00:46:30,700
break through to the other well break

967
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:32,260
through to the other side in just a few

968
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:33,970
minutes and be back with our very

969
00:46:37,950 --> 00:46:35,410
exciting program and we're going to go

970
00:46:40,980 --> 00:46:37,960
back inside the saucers with president

971
00:46:50,660 --> 00:46:40,990
in it and then work our way through the

972
00:46:50,670 --> 00:46:55,060
[Music]

973
00:47:02,010 --> 00:46:59,560
explore the bazaars or e-ticket ride

974
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:02,020
into the world of the paranormal

975
00:47:09,630 --> 00:47:05,330
strap yourself in as we traverse the

976
00:47:12,720 --> 00:47:09,640
universe exploring the unexplained UFO s

977
00:47:15,100 --> 00:47:12,730
ghosts Lost Worlds

978
00:47:18,970 --> 00:47:15,110
cryptozoology as well as other

979
00:47:24,100 --> 00:47:18,980
dimensions it's time to take back the

980
00:47:27,190 --> 00:47:24,110
night now your electrifying hosts of

981
00:47:31,810 --> 00:47:27,200
exploring the bizarre Timothy Begley and

982
00:47:34,750 --> 00:47:31,820
team sports alright welcome back to

983
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:34,760
exploring the bizarre here we are and

984
00:47:40,060 --> 00:47:37,970
the second segment of the program and we

985
00:47:42,940 --> 00:47:40,070
have with this Preston Dennett and Larry

986
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:42,950
hand guard and Larry before we bring

987
00:47:50,590 --> 00:47:45,530
Preston back on again I wanted to ask

988
00:47:52,540 --> 00:47:50,600
you going back a little bit about before

989
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:52,550
we went on break and talk about you know

990
00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:55,130
UFO groups you know just wondering if

991
00:48:00,250 --> 00:47:57,530
you know groups like you know NICAP and

992
00:48:03,970 --> 00:48:00,260
and other UFO groups had any kind of

993
00:48:08,290 --> 00:48:03,980
effect on the cia's attitude towards

994
00:48:12,720 --> 00:48:08,300
UFOs and UFO sightings some of the very

995
00:48:15,700 --> 00:48:12,730
early groups back in the early 50s

996
00:48:17,620 --> 00:48:15,710
actually did but they were some of the

997
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:17,630
independent flying saucer groups

998
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:21,650
especially out of Los Angeles that had

999
00:48:26,530 --> 00:48:24,290
members out of the engineering community

1000
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:26,540
in the aerospace community and actually

1001
00:48:31,590 --> 00:48:29,810
when rappelled was going around early in

1002
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:31,600
project Bluebook

1003
00:48:37,690 --> 00:48:34,970
52:53 era they II went out and talked to

1004
00:48:41,290 --> 00:48:37,700
them and was seriously impressed by some

1005
00:48:43,810 --> 00:48:41,300
of their observations not so much about

1006
00:48:48,970 --> 00:48:43,820
a PR oh and nycap and to tell you the

1007
00:48:50,860 --> 00:48:48,980
truth a PRA in particular got to be a

1008
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:50,870
real counter it was seen as a real

1009
00:48:55,750 --> 00:48:53,450
counterintelligence problem and that

1010
00:49:00,130 --> 00:48:55,760
shows up in the Robertson panel when

1011
00:49:02,890 --> 00:49:00,140
they actually recommend that the UFO

1012
00:49:06,130 --> 00:49:02,900
groups be watched because the Soviets

1013
00:49:08,700 --> 00:49:06,140
may be using their observations as kind

1014
00:49:11,460 --> 00:49:08,710
of an open collection source

1015
00:49:13,710 --> 00:49:11,470
yeah but but APRA was more yeah Abra was

1016
00:49:17,010 --> 00:49:13,720
more interested in little green men than

1017
00:49:18,359 --> 00:49:17,020
they were in you know the well humanoids

1018
00:49:22,620 --> 00:49:18,369
I say that you know facetiously because

1019
00:49:25,799 --> 00:49:22,630
they did a lot of decent research we've

1020
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:25,809
had their librarian Alan Ben's on a few

1021
00:49:30,180 --> 00:49:28,210
times he's a buddy of mine going back

1022
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:30,190
any number of years he's still down in

1023
00:49:37,740 --> 00:49:34,450
Tucson you know and but they say it was

1024
00:49:40,530 --> 00:49:37,750
a nightcap by far major Keyhoe that seem

1025
00:49:43,740 --> 00:49:40,540
to be pushing this we've got a you know

1026
00:49:45,900 --> 00:49:43,750
a bushel full of secrecy here and and

1027
00:49:48,809 --> 00:49:45,910
and would seem to have been a more thorn

1028
00:49:51,630 --> 00:49:48,819
in their side than than anything else

1029
00:49:54,299 --> 00:49:51,640
what was there one person in the in the

1030
00:50:00,540 --> 00:49:54,309
CIA who said now we're gonna we're gonna

1031
00:50:03,329 --> 00:50:00,550
Deep Six this ah no not one person there

1032
00:50:05,190 --> 00:50:03,339
was the deep-sixing primarily came out

1033
00:50:07,770 --> 00:50:05,200
of the Air Force side because the CIA

1034
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:07,780
just kind of after the Robertson panel

1035
00:50:14,190 --> 00:50:11,050
Fiasco the CIA just filed a report and

1036
00:50:17,329 --> 00:50:14,200
left it with the Air Force but it was it

1037
00:50:21,620 --> 00:50:17,339
was basically the people that took over

1038
00:50:24,690 --> 00:50:21,630
Bluebook after repelled a new commander

1039
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:24,700
that it just said okay this is an Air

1040
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:26,770
Defense problem forget all that other

1041
00:50:30,809 --> 00:50:29,290
nonsense let's wrap this up and we'll go

1042
00:50:33,930 --> 00:50:30,819
back to treating it the way we were

1043
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:33,940
treating it if each each incident is a

1044
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:37,690
as a potential threat report but if it's

1045
00:50:42,930 --> 00:50:40,450
not Russians you know just explain it

1046
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:42,940
and go on with your business they were

1047
00:50:46,829 --> 00:50:44,530
really really they're worried about the

1048
00:50:48,930 --> 00:50:46,839
Russians and UFOs that was their oath

1049
00:50:51,990 --> 00:50:48,940
and that shows up in the documents

1050
00:50:54,420 --> 00:50:52,000
clearly all the way into early 1952 that

1051
00:50:56,309 --> 00:50:54,430
they you see documents talking about the

1052
00:50:59,700 --> 00:50:56,319
fact that the Russians had developed

1053
00:51:01,710 --> 00:50:59,710
quote-unquote bomb carriers that they

1054
00:51:04,079 --> 00:51:01,720
would use as soon as they got atomic

1055
00:51:08,309 --> 00:51:04,089
weapons okay the first reports that are

1056
00:51:10,319 --> 00:51:08,319
filed in in 47 and 48 they're absolutely

1057
00:51:13,020 --> 00:51:10,329
convinced it's the Russians as a matter

1058
00:51:15,900 --> 00:51:13,030
of fact they expect they expected in the

1059
00:51:19,289 --> 00:51:15,910
first UFO project that within six months

1060
00:51:22,380 --> 00:51:19,299
they would identify what German

1061
00:51:25,230 --> 00:51:22,390
technology and how the Russians had

1062
00:51:27,450 --> 00:51:25,240
and actually be able to avoid it well

1063
00:51:29,340 --> 00:51:27,460
you know okay well the German technology

1064
00:51:32,430 --> 00:51:29,350
is the thing that turns me on because

1065
00:51:35,850 --> 00:51:32,440
we've written any number of books on LR

1066
00:51:38,850 --> 00:51:35,860
and last one being the Nazi UFO at Time

1067
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:38,860
Traveller's it seems that the Germans

1068
00:51:44,370 --> 00:51:40,690
were doing a heck of a lot more research

1069
00:51:47,820 --> 00:51:44,380
into the flying discs and and might have

1070
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:47,830
had any number of if you believe it you

1071
00:51:51,750 --> 00:51:49,570
know contacts with ETS through

1072
00:51:54,180 --> 00:51:51,760
channeling and they had their own occult

1073
00:51:57,240 --> 00:51:54,190
societies and and so forth is a

1074
00:51:59,730 --> 00:51:57,250
fascinating you know legend if nothing

1075
00:52:02,610 --> 00:51:59,740
else anything in the documents that

1076
00:52:06,720 --> 00:52:02,620
would now a captain repel did make a

1077
00:52:10,590 --> 00:52:06,730
curious statement that he thought that

1078
00:52:12,720 --> 00:52:10,600
the OE craft that could possibly fly at

1079
00:52:15,390 --> 00:52:12,730
these these speeds was something that

1080
00:52:17,850 --> 00:52:15,400
had been you know invented they were

1081
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:17,860
developed in Germany anything in your

1082
00:52:23,130 --> 00:52:19,810
research that would point in that

1083
00:52:25,620 --> 00:52:23,140
direction well a day I mean early on

1084
00:52:30,330 --> 00:52:25,630
they were absolutely convinced that it

1085
00:52:33,750 --> 00:52:30,340
was Courtin aircraft the integrated wing

1086
00:52:36,650 --> 00:52:33,760
aircraft and they actually they're their

1087
00:52:39,630 --> 00:52:36,660
intelligence reports showing that they

1088
00:52:42,240 --> 00:52:39,640
they had determined that the Russians

1089
00:52:45,030 --> 00:52:42,250
were building hundreds of these jet

1090
00:52:47,220 --> 00:52:45,040
propelled hoardin flying wings that they

1091
00:52:50,700 --> 00:52:47,230
were going to use as tactical bombers

1092
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:50,710
and there's a fascinating letter that

1093
00:52:58,590 --> 00:52:55,210
talks about visiting with several German

1094
00:53:02,990 --> 00:52:58,600
scientists about remote-control versions

1095
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:03,000
of these and also balloon carried

1096
00:53:09,050 --> 00:53:05,650
versions of these because they seemed to

1097
00:53:12,930 --> 00:53:09,060
have thought that the Russians might be

1098
00:53:15,870 --> 00:53:12,940
sending them over on balloons and then

1099
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:15,880
launching them on missions that's that's

1100
00:53:21,870 --> 00:53:18,810
fascinating not so I mean there are

1101
00:53:24,090 --> 00:53:21,880
among the the collections documents that

1102
00:53:27,110 --> 00:53:24,100
went to write patterns and there's a lot

1103
00:53:32,580 --> 00:53:27,120
of stuff on German experimentations with

1104
00:53:34,130 --> 00:53:32,590
other types of propulsion and and those

1105
00:53:35,630 --> 00:53:34,140
sorts of things but in the Air Force

1106
00:53:39,230 --> 00:53:35,640
documents there

1107
00:53:41,750 --> 00:53:39,240
we thought that it was rocket devices

1108
00:53:45,580 --> 00:53:41,760
advanced rockets or these jet flying

1109
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:45,590
wings probably ram jet propelled and

1110
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:48,570
some of the early sightings were pretty

1111
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:52,410
convincing that the staff the

1112
00:53:57,050 --> 00:53:53,970
engineering staff at wright-patterson

1113
00:54:00,970 --> 00:53:57,060
were convinced that those that's what it

1114
00:54:04,370 --> 00:54:00,980
was and it was only it was only in

1115
00:54:06,410 --> 00:54:04,380
towards them the summer of 1948 that

1116
00:54:08,510 --> 00:54:06,420
they started getting observations that

1117
00:54:11,450 --> 00:54:08,520
they felt that they couldn't explain by

1118
00:54:14,510 --> 00:54:11,460
that and they floated the idea that it

1119
00:54:20,660 --> 00:54:14,520
was actually some sort of alien

1120
00:54:23,290 --> 00:54:20,670
technology well yeah okay that they got

1121
00:54:26,380 --> 00:54:23,300
past the Russians to this to this other

1122
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:26,390
other story and actually took that

1123
00:54:32,030 --> 00:54:28,890
hypothesis to the Pentagon and you can

1124
00:54:34,220 --> 00:54:32,040
see in the Air Force studies that some

1125
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:34,230
of their people that wright-patterson

1126
00:54:40,130 --> 00:54:37,530
people are suggesting that it's it's

1127
00:54:43,190 --> 00:54:40,140
truly foreign technology not the

1128
00:54:45,620 --> 00:54:43,200
Russians but off planning technology hey

1129
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:45,630
well I wonder I would ask a Preston a a

1130
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:49,410
question here we're talking to we start

1131
00:54:53,990 --> 00:54:51,690
out I started out the program kind of in

1132
00:54:56,420 --> 00:54:54,000
our usual humorous mode plucky about the

1133
00:55:01,730 --> 00:54:56,430
different shapes and sizes of the ships

1134
00:55:03,500 --> 00:55:01,740
in the sky anything tell tell us what

1135
00:55:05,570 --> 00:55:03,510
significance the different shapes and

1136
00:55:07,010 --> 00:55:05,580
the sizes might have to do it as to

1137
00:55:10,690 --> 00:55:07,020
who's involved with the crafter who

1138
00:55:13,220 --> 00:55:10,700
might be piling it I haven't noticed any

1139
00:55:15,350 --> 00:55:13,230
patterns in that regard it's actually

1140
00:55:17,330 --> 00:55:15,360
really frustrating and bewildering

1141
00:55:19,910 --> 00:55:17,340
because you have this kind of

1142
00:55:22,610 --> 00:55:19,920
smorgasbord I mean that they can come in

1143
00:55:26,150 --> 00:55:22,620
practically any shape or size yes you

1144
00:55:28,790 --> 00:55:26,160
get a lot of saucers triangles steers

1145
00:55:32,300 --> 00:55:28,800
things like this but I have to tell you

1146
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:32,310
I get unique shapes all the time people

1147
00:55:38,870 --> 00:55:34,650
can't even describe them they're oddly

1148
00:55:42,890 --> 00:55:38,880
shaped so yes and I can't tell who's in

1149
00:55:45,290 --> 00:55:42,900
what just by looking at it no well and

1150
00:55:47,240 --> 00:55:45,300
Chris tonight I suppose that that was

1151
00:55:48,810 --> 00:55:47,250
one of the things that probably

1152
00:55:52,470 --> 00:55:48,820
frustrated

1153
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:52,480
the Air Force and the CIA and you know

1154
00:55:58,050 --> 00:55:54,570
other numbers groups or letter groups

1155
00:55:59,940 --> 00:55:58,060
was the fact that there didn't seem to

1156
00:56:01,800 --> 00:55:59,950
be a lot of a consistency to you know

1157
00:56:03,570 --> 00:56:01,810
like the sizes and shapes because I mean

1158
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:03,580
you'd have like you pointed out you know

1159
00:56:09,710 --> 00:56:07,690
people see cigar shape egg shape UFOs

1160
00:56:13,470 --> 00:56:09,720
and then you know the next round and

1161
00:56:15,420 --> 00:56:13,480
there'd be the flying triangles right

1162
00:56:17,610 --> 00:56:15,430
the whole military response to this is

1163
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:17,620
fascinating and big bungled it in terms

1164
00:56:23,220 --> 00:56:20,530
of you know relating it to the public

1165
00:56:24,810 --> 00:56:23,230
and in disclosing this stuff and I

1166
00:56:28,170 --> 00:56:24,820
talked to a number of people who've been

1167
00:56:29,610 --> 00:56:28,180
you know in the military in various

1168
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:29,620
capacities

1169
00:56:34,740 --> 00:56:31,570
one interesting gentleman I interviewed

1170
00:56:39,300 --> 00:56:34,750
recently was an electricians made on the

1171
00:56:43,290 --> 00:56:39,310
USS clamming or a sub submarine which

1172
00:56:44,820 --> 00:56:43,300
carried no wet nuclear weapons and he's

1173
00:56:47,220 --> 00:56:44,830
been on a number of other submarines and

1174
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:47,230
never had any activity but once he got

1175
00:56:51,900 --> 00:56:49,570
on the clamming or he said strange stuff

1176
00:56:53,790 --> 00:56:51,910
began to happen and the strangest thing

1177
00:56:57,120 --> 00:56:53,800
that happened was once he was on watch

1178
00:56:59,100 --> 00:56:57,130
he was actually on the surface they were

1179
00:57:02,820 --> 00:56:59,110
going up to the East Coast this was back

1180
00:57:06,750 --> 00:57:02,830
in gosh I believe was the early 70s and

1181
00:57:08,940 --> 00:57:06,760
he was there with another petty officer

1182
00:57:12,930 --> 00:57:08,950
there was the captain and the second guy

1183
00:57:15,540 --> 00:57:12,940
in command and this UFO shows up

1184
00:57:19,230 --> 00:57:15,550
actually a USO it was submerged under

1185
00:57:20,010 --> 00:57:19,240
the water says it approached it like 50

1186
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:20,020
miles an hour

1187
00:57:26,130 --> 00:57:24,490
real fast completely silent the captain

1188
00:57:27,630 --> 00:57:26,140
calls the radar room and they they're

1189
00:57:29,570 --> 00:57:27,640
like no we have nothing we're not

1190
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:29,580
painting anything we don't see it and

1191
00:57:35,700 --> 00:57:32,730
this thing comes right up to their

1192
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:35,710
submarine which is no opening up just

1193
00:57:41,900 --> 00:57:39,970
ten knots or so and paces it for about

1194
00:57:44,610 --> 00:57:41,910
15 minutes

1195
00:57:48,090 --> 00:57:44,620
obviously watching them it was 50 feet

1196
00:57:51,570 --> 00:57:48,100
across at least really bright and they

1197
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:51,580
estimated 50 feet down not super deep

1198
00:57:57,540 --> 00:57:55,570
they couldn't really tell and one by one

1199
00:58:00,720 --> 00:57:57,550
all the officers came up to take a look

1200
00:58:02,579 --> 00:58:00,730
at it they wanted to see it and raise

1201
00:58:03,749 --> 00:58:02,589
sax guy interviewed he

1202
00:58:06,719 --> 00:58:03,759
washed it with his other buddy and

1203
00:58:09,569 --> 00:58:06,729
they're talking about it and finally at

1204
00:58:11,099 --> 00:58:09,579
left and the second-in-command turns to

1205
00:58:14,069 --> 00:58:11,109
them and says stop talking about this

1206
00:58:15,690 --> 00:58:14,079
talk about this to anybody and he turns

1207
00:58:18,420 --> 00:58:15,700
to the captain and says how do I put

1208
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:18,430
this in the log and the captain turns to

1209
00:58:22,890 --> 00:58:20,650
the second guy and says people who

1210
00:58:26,099 --> 00:58:22,900
report this sort of thing don't move up

1211
00:58:28,019 --> 00:58:26,109
in rank Wow so it was covered up right

1212
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:28,029
from there though it turns out everyone

1213
00:58:31,739 --> 00:58:30,130
on the ship knew about it they all

1214
00:58:34,319 --> 00:58:31,749
talked about it it was the buzz for you

1215
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:34,329
know a couple of weeks so these are the

1216
00:58:38,219 --> 00:58:35,650
sort of things that happened that we

1217
00:58:41,219 --> 00:58:38,229
don't hear about now now is this in any

1218
00:58:43,140 --> 00:58:41,229
official documents or is this person a

1219
00:58:45,450 --> 00:58:43,150
person with you not that I could find

1220
00:58:47,549 --> 00:58:45,460
you know I was able to verify that he

1221
00:58:50,459 --> 00:58:47,559
was in fact and the electrician's made I

1222
00:58:52,620 --> 00:58:50,469
got the roster list of all the know

1223
00:58:56,729 --> 00:58:52,630
people who were on board at that time

1224
00:59:00,269 --> 00:58:56,739
and there was his name so uh yeah no

1225
00:59:03,269 --> 00:59:00,279
proof and what was the object described

1226
00:59:05,849 --> 00:59:03,279
as looking like just this bright bright

1227
00:59:09,630 --> 00:59:05,859
white light round they couldn't see it

1228
00:59:13,019 --> 00:59:09,640
it was deep underwater and it's just

1229
00:59:15,239 --> 00:59:13,029
pasted their ship he do it wasn't thirds

1230
00:59:17,039 --> 00:59:15,249
it was too quiet and when it darted off

1231
00:59:20,089 --> 00:59:17,049
it moved off much faster than anything

1232
00:59:24,420 --> 00:59:20,099
we got certainly at that time officially

1233
00:59:26,759 --> 00:59:24,430
now Larry it is there's some people that

1234
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:26,769
believe that the the Navy has actually

1235
00:59:32,279 --> 00:59:29,170
been investigating these things of

1236
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:32,289
things more secretly than than the Air

1237
00:59:37,529 --> 00:59:34,410
Force and have come to their own

1238
00:59:41,940 --> 00:59:37,539
conclusions isn't there are you familiar

1239
00:59:44,519 --> 00:59:41,950
with the dock the janap document yes yes

1240
00:59:48,359 --> 00:59:44,529
no was that was that was that an Navy

1241
00:59:51,359 --> 00:59:48,369
document wait affected all military its

1242
00:59:53,759 --> 00:59:51,369
joint services document so there was

1243
00:59:56,789 --> 00:59:53,769
actually a naval aspect to it and

1244
00:59:58,620 --> 00:59:56,799
interestingly enough the Navy was part

1245
01:00:02,309 --> 00:59:58,630
of the very first Air Force

1246
01:00:05,069 --> 01:00:02,319
investigations and the Navy did a lot of

1247
01:00:07,559 --> 01:00:05,079
investigation of its early on they did a

1248
01:00:10,979 --> 01:00:07,569
lot of photo analysis early on and

1249
01:00:13,559 --> 01:00:10,989
actually the Navy certified certain

1250
01:00:16,260 --> 01:00:13,569
photographs as being true unknowns that

1251
01:00:19,380 --> 01:00:16,270
the Air Force wouldn't

1252
01:00:21,210 --> 01:00:19,390
so the Navy was Navy definitely conduct

1253
01:00:23,490 --> 01:00:21,220
its own investigations one of the

1254
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:23,500
reasons why is because a couple of very

1255
01:00:30,330 --> 01:00:27,250
senior ant Admirals had experiences on

1256
01:00:32,100 --> 01:00:30,340
Navy flights and they were not going to

1257
01:00:36,390 --> 01:00:32,110
take no for an answer because they had

1258
01:00:38,670 --> 01:00:36,400
seen it so and who might say have been

1259
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:38,680
do you know I think of a Seacole otter

1260
01:00:42,930 --> 01:00:40,330
I'd have to look back up your name

1261
01:00:45,660 --> 01:00:42,940
itself that was that was early on back

1262
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:45,670
in the 40s as a matter of fact mm-hmm

1263
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:48,250
and do you think these reports are still

1264
01:00:52,910 --> 01:00:50,530
going on I mean similar reports of this

1265
01:00:55,230 --> 01:00:52,920
but they're squatched or are they just

1266
01:00:57,510 --> 01:00:55,240
nobody in the military if they happen to

1267
01:01:00,870 --> 01:00:57,520
have an experience is gonna tell us

1268
01:01:03,510 --> 01:01:00,880
about it the report the pre the threat

1269
01:01:06,150 --> 01:01:03,520
reporting still goes on under no read I

1270
01:01:09,830 --> 01:01:06,160
mean even after Blue Book was

1271
01:01:13,070 --> 01:01:09,840
discontinued in 69 the official

1272
01:01:18,660 --> 01:01:13,080
regulations are there to report any

1273
01:01:21,690 --> 01:01:18,670
aerial or at sea or undersea anything

1274
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:21,700
that is might be considered a threat now

1275
01:01:27,030 --> 01:01:23,770
that submarine experience is kind of

1276
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:27,040
interesting because you know was it a

1277
01:01:32,580 --> 01:01:29,650
threat probably not so there there's

1278
01:01:34,710 --> 01:01:32,590
some there's some wishy-washy wording

1279
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:34,720
going on about that but we have a lot of

1280
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:37,690
incidents out of the 70s that were

1281
01:01:42,450 --> 01:01:39,850
officially reported through the Air

1282
01:01:45,900 --> 01:01:42,460
Force and through no read as threat

1283
01:01:49,260 --> 01:01:45,910
incidents so that reporting still

1284
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:49,270
continues it continues to this day we

1285
01:01:56,040 --> 01:01:53,130
just don't see it because it's either

1286
01:02:00,840 --> 01:01:56,050
classified and they're not going to show

1287
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:00,850
it to us or as as he described somebody

1288
01:02:08,790 --> 01:02:03,130
makes a decision that it's not a career

1289
01:02:11,310 --> 01:02:08,800
move and they don't file it Preston I

1290
01:02:12,660 --> 01:02:11,320
wanted to ask you in the the first part

1291
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:12,670
of the program you know you told us a

1292
01:02:19,530 --> 01:02:15,250
really interesting story about somebody

1293
01:02:22,730 --> 01:02:19,540
who saw what you know had contacts with

1294
01:02:27,499 --> 01:02:22,740
you know like praying mantis types of

1295
01:02:29,909 --> 01:02:27,509
ins the preachers what about you know

1296
01:02:33,089 --> 01:02:29,919
have you run across any other you know

1297
01:02:35,399 --> 01:02:33,099
like interesting contact experiences I

1298
01:02:38,189 --> 01:02:35,409
know Tim Bekker he's always interested

1299
01:02:41,279 --> 01:02:38,199
in you know like the the Nordic or there

1300
01:02:43,620 --> 01:02:41,289
you like the really humanoid types of of

1301
01:02:46,709 --> 01:02:43,630
encounters rather than the you know

1302
01:02:48,390 --> 01:02:46,719
stereotypical you know big I gray aliens

1303
01:02:50,549 --> 01:02:48,400
yeah well I just think that I just think

1304
01:02:57,719 --> 01:02:50,559
that the et aliens are cute that's all

1305
01:03:02,039 --> 01:02:57,729
the women I mean you know we it seems

1306
01:03:04,039 --> 01:03:02,049
like that you know any kind of a media

1307
01:03:07,439 --> 01:03:04,049
coverage to a little there is anymore

1308
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:07,449
still seems to go back to that you know

1309
01:03:14,609 --> 01:03:12,130
big eyed little grey aliens even though

1310
01:03:16,819 --> 01:03:14,619
that there's a plethora of all kinds of

1311
01:03:20,399 --> 01:03:16,829
different you know shapes and sizes of

1312
01:03:22,649 --> 01:03:20,409
entity seen right well I still get

1313
01:03:24,329 --> 01:03:22,659
mostly greys for whatever reason I'm not

1314
01:03:26,609 --> 01:03:24,339
sure up but lately I've been getting

1315
01:03:28,890 --> 01:03:26,619
more different kinds you know Nordic

1316
01:03:31,380 --> 01:03:28,900
praying mantis certainly but there's

1317
01:03:33,870 --> 01:03:31,390
this weird catch-all category which you

1318
01:03:35,729 --> 01:03:33,880
can't really categorize very easily and

1319
01:03:38,509 --> 01:03:35,739
I included one of these cases in the

1320
01:03:42,870 --> 01:03:38,519
book which involves a nine foot tall

1321
01:03:45,749 --> 01:03:42,880
orange haired humanoid which was seen by

1322
01:03:49,890 --> 01:03:45,759
a Nebraska housewife it's a very very

1323
01:03:52,919 --> 01:03:49,900
unusual experience she was suffering

1324
01:03:55,049 --> 01:03:52,929
from hypoglycemia type illness following

1325
01:03:57,929 --> 01:03:55,059
the birth of her child and it got very

1326
01:03:59,870 --> 01:03:57,939
severe she was losing weight doctors

1327
01:04:02,309 --> 01:03:59,880
couldn't help her didn't know what to do

1328
01:04:05,339 --> 01:04:02,319
she was carrying around orange juice and

1329
01:04:08,789 --> 01:04:05,349
a no protein passing out several times a

1330
01:04:12,599 --> 01:04:08,799
day and had reached the plant was a very

1331
01:04:14,189 --> 01:04:12,609
very serious issue when suddenly she's

1332
01:04:16,620 --> 01:04:14,199
walking across the room in her house and

1333
01:04:20,519 --> 01:04:16,630
she's no longer in her house she's in

1334
01:04:24,059 --> 01:04:20,529
this underground she says it was like a

1335
01:04:27,989 --> 01:04:24,069
gymnasium type saying a huge huge

1336
01:04:31,199 --> 01:04:27,999
chamber and there was a lot of people

1337
01:04:33,689 --> 01:04:31,209
there she was in this cubicle and she

1338
01:04:35,519 --> 01:04:33,699
said she's lying on this table there was

1339
01:04:38,429 --> 01:04:35,529
another man in a cubicle across the

1340
01:04:40,859 --> 01:04:38,439
corridor from her they were both out of

1341
01:04:42,660 --> 01:04:40,869
it disoriented

1342
01:04:45,420 --> 01:04:42,670
trying to figure out what happened where

1343
01:04:47,730 --> 01:04:45,430
they were and she says it was a very

1344
01:04:50,549 --> 01:04:47,740
tall ceiling she couldn't see any lights

1345
01:04:52,609 --> 01:04:50,559
but it was very well lit there was an

1346
01:04:55,470 --> 01:04:52,619
industrial type carpet on the ground and

1347
01:04:57,089 --> 01:04:55,480
she peeks her out you know stands up and

1348
01:04:59,700 --> 01:04:57,099
sees there are hundreds of these

1349
01:05:01,920 --> 01:04:59,710
cubicles mmm a lot of people and she

1350
01:05:04,710 --> 01:05:01,930
looks down the corridor and she sees

1351
01:05:06,930 --> 01:05:04,720
this big ear walking towards her and she

1352
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:06,940
starts screaming because it's not human

1353
01:05:12,900 --> 01:05:09,730
she says it was nine feet tall at least

1354
01:05:14,940 --> 01:05:12,910
had unusual clothes on she couldn't

1355
01:05:19,259 --> 01:05:14,950
really describe them that well they were

1356
01:05:22,460 --> 01:05:19,269
dark and uniform like uh what appeared

1357
01:05:25,529 --> 01:05:22,470
to be a cape but it was this man's face

1358
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:25,539
that really captured her attention

1359
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:27,730
because he was not human she said it was

1360
01:05:35,190 --> 01:05:31,450
much too broad I mean he was humanoid

1361
01:05:37,710 --> 01:05:35,200
you had eyes but they were exotic a too

1362
01:05:40,140 --> 01:05:37,720
large of a nose the chin was much too

1363
01:05:42,870 --> 01:05:40,150
large the forehead was way too large and

1364
01:05:45,509 --> 01:05:42,880
his hair wasn't hair she said it was

1365
01:05:48,329 --> 01:05:45,519
much thicker than hair stood straight up

1366
01:05:52,559 --> 01:05:48,339
about two three inches and was bright

1367
01:05:54,089 --> 01:05:52,569
orange mmm I reminded her of straw she

1368
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:54,099
actually contacts me because you know

1369
01:05:58,680 --> 01:05:55,210
she wanted to know if I had heard of

1370
01:06:01,470 --> 01:05:58,690
anything like this and no I couldn't say

1371
01:06:02,279 --> 01:06:01,480
that I have oh that that sounds familiar

1372
01:06:07,259 --> 01:06:02,289
to me

1373
01:06:10,019 --> 01:06:07,269
Tim I don't know if that occurred to you

1374
01:06:14,460 --> 01:06:10,029
but hair like straw that sounds like the

1375
01:06:17,370 --> 01:06:14,470
and I can remember the guys oh yes that

1376
01:06:21,450 --> 01:06:17,380
sounds like a Karl here yeah he was the

1377
01:06:23,549 --> 01:06:21,460
first he was the original guy who saw

1378
01:06:25,470 --> 01:06:23,559
the alien punk rockers or something like

1379
01:06:28,109 --> 01:06:25,480
that yeah they the hair stood up just

1380
01:06:30,329 --> 01:06:28,119
like just like a straw

1381
01:06:31,950 --> 01:06:30,339
and that was years before that I guess

1382
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:31,960
yeah yeah that was only that was always

1383
01:06:38,519 --> 01:06:34,930
one of my favorite abduction stories

1384
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:38,529
because he did have more than the usual

1385
01:06:45,690 --> 01:06:41,890
a bit of evidence you know there there

1386
01:06:48,539 --> 01:06:45,700
was the the bullet that supposedly it

1387
01:06:50,489 --> 01:06:48,549
hit a invisible barrier that prevented

1388
01:06:52,410 --> 01:06:50,499
it from striking one of the elk that he

1389
01:06:54,609 --> 01:06:52,420
was hunting and they they had the bullet

1390
01:06:59,410 --> 01:06:54,619
that was all twisted inside

1391
01:07:01,779 --> 01:06:59,420
out he had some scar tissue on his lungs

1392
01:07:04,630 --> 01:07:01,789
and had been under doctors care but when

1393
01:07:07,170 --> 01:07:04,640
they took him to the the hospital after

1394
01:07:11,769 --> 01:07:07,180
he had been teleported back into the

1395
01:07:13,749 --> 01:07:11,779
into his truck the scar tissue was gone

1396
01:07:15,730 --> 01:07:13,759
it showed that in the x-rays and the

1397
01:07:16,079 --> 01:07:15,740
truck itself had moved from the grassy

1398
01:07:19,769 --> 01:07:16,089
knoll

1399
01:07:21,849 --> 01:07:19,779
into a marshy area so deep that the

1400
01:07:28,859 --> 01:07:21,859
Sheriff's Department had to get out

1401
01:07:30,190 --> 01:07:28,869
there to halt we have to hold the trucks

1402
01:07:31,779 --> 01:07:30,200
records yes

1403
01:07:34,269 --> 01:07:31,789
yeah records the whole whatever they

1404
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:34,279
used the whole that out and they had to

1405
01:07:39,430 --> 01:07:35,930
put out you know a series of logs

1406
01:07:41,829 --> 01:07:39,440
because the ground was so was so so soft

1407
01:07:45,039 --> 01:07:41,839
so I I don't know I I think the evidence

1408
01:07:49,569 --> 01:07:45,049
was was more than the usual in his in

1409
01:07:52,690 --> 01:07:49,579
his case but the straw-haired guys have

1410
01:07:55,660 --> 01:07:52,700
not been seen all that often that I can

1411
01:07:57,700 --> 01:07:55,670
think of what happened to oppress into

1412
01:08:02,140 --> 01:07:57,710
the little hairy humanoids that used to

1413
01:08:04,930 --> 01:08:02,150
chase a pro's crew around yeah you know

1414
01:08:07,390 --> 01:08:04,940
I don't get hardly any of those and it's

1415
01:08:09,099 --> 01:08:07,400
just home Adamle unique even with graves

1416
01:08:11,710 --> 01:08:09,109
I never get like something I can say oh

1417
01:08:14,979 --> 01:08:11,720
that's exactly the same grade Betty and

1418
01:08:16,930 --> 01:08:14,989
raisin named her squaws gun I've heard a

1419
01:08:20,499 --> 01:08:16,940
lot of cute names from people quarry is

1420
01:08:22,809 --> 01:08:20,509
a name of an et I heard quail are all

1421
01:08:27,309 --> 01:08:22,819
kinds of different names that never the

1422
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:27,319
same exact et and ones that this lady

1423
01:08:32,280 --> 01:08:29,690
saw I'm they were 9 feet tall this one

1424
01:08:34,450 --> 01:08:32,290
that Carla Hickman saw was much shorter

1425
01:08:36,220 --> 01:08:34,460
yeah that was a great case by the way

1426
01:08:39,629 --> 01:08:36,230
there were other witnesses as well it

1427
01:08:41,860 --> 01:08:39,639
was cured of kidney stones and this lady

1428
01:08:45,129 --> 01:08:41,870
coincidentally was also cured of her

1429
01:08:47,289 --> 01:08:45,139
hypoglycemia this guy put instruments on

1430
01:08:48,999 --> 01:08:47,299
her body which were kind of painful she

1431
01:08:50,379 --> 01:08:49,009
said and a little scary because she

1432
01:08:54,099 --> 01:08:50,389
could feel the energy coming through

1433
01:08:55,899 --> 01:08:54,109
them and apparently cured her because

1434
01:08:58,090 --> 01:08:55,909
the next thing she knows she's back in

1435
01:09:01,209 --> 01:08:58,100
her house she can't wake up her family

1436
01:09:04,329 --> 01:09:01,219
takes her about 20 minutes or half an

1437
01:09:05,709 --> 01:09:04,339
hour to wake up her family and finally

1438
01:09:08,470 --> 01:09:05,719
they do wake up they're very supportive

1439
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:08,480
and following this instant

1440
01:09:13,450 --> 01:09:11,290
she didn't pass out after eating she

1441
01:09:14,200 --> 01:09:13,460
didn't pass out at all and she started

1442
01:09:16,780 --> 01:09:14,210
to gain weight

1443
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:16,790
her body was very sore for about two

1444
01:09:18,970 --> 01:09:17,210
weeks

1445
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:18,980
especially where these instruments have

1446
01:09:25,870 --> 01:09:23,570
been but she was apparently fine and

1447
01:09:29,250 --> 01:09:25,880
went to the doctor eventually cuz she

1448
01:09:31,870 --> 01:09:29,260
had contracted tuberculosis as a child

1449
01:09:34,810 --> 01:09:31,880
had to be regularly x-rayed her lungs

1450
01:09:39,100 --> 01:09:34,820
and they found this metallic object in

1451
01:09:41,890 --> 01:09:39,110
her lung family they have no idea how

1452
01:09:44,550 --> 01:09:41,900
cop there no idea what it is it's rather

1453
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:44,560
large it's apparently not hurting her

1454
01:09:52,090 --> 01:09:49,730
but they certainly can't remove it all

1455
01:09:54,820 --> 01:09:52,100
right well we will continue this

1456
01:09:57,280 --> 01:09:54,830
conversation after we go to a little

1457
01:10:00,000 --> 01:09:57,290
station break here so stay tuned for

1458
01:10:08,730 --> 01:10:00,010
more exploring the bizarre

1459
01:10:15,490 --> 01:10:12,910
now back to exploring the bazaars with

1460
01:10:18,460 --> 01:10:15,500
two of the most electrifying researchers

1461
01:10:24,010 --> 01:10:18,470
in the Paranoid your hosts Timothy

1462
01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:24,020
beckoning hunting sweets and welcome

1463
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:26,210
back to exploring the bazaar here to him

1464
01:10:32,230 --> 01:10:28,850
at the bottom of the hour and time has

1465
01:10:34,690 --> 01:10:32,240
really flown so I wanted to ask Larry

1466
01:10:37,770 --> 01:10:34,700
real quick here during one of the breaks

1467
01:10:40,530 --> 01:10:37,780
we were talking about various

1468
01:10:43,540 --> 01:10:40,540
governments like Great Britain who've

1469
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:43,550
released are allegedly released all of

1470
01:10:51,910 --> 01:10:49,130
their UFO material and then as Tina

1471
01:10:54,880 --> 01:10:51,920
pointed out you know year later the only

1472
01:11:02,230 --> 01:10:54,890
we found some more and Larry you had

1473
01:11:05,890 --> 01:11:02,240
made a comment that probably definitely

1474
01:11:08,680 --> 01:11:05,900
here in the United States that all of

1475
01:11:12,550 --> 01:11:08,690
the good stuff will probably never be

1476
01:11:15,580 --> 01:11:12,560
released and I was just wondering at

1477
01:11:20,170 --> 01:11:15,590
this point does anybody even know

1478
01:11:22,270 --> 01:11:20,180
anymore where that material is where

1479
01:11:23,950 --> 01:11:22,280
where a lot of those secret documents

1480
01:11:26,470 --> 01:11:23,960
because you know you think about the

1481
01:11:28,930 --> 01:11:26,480
time that has passed you know since the

1482
01:11:33,280 --> 01:11:28,940
end of World War two and now and

1483
01:11:39,670 --> 01:11:33,290
especially the way that various military

1484
01:11:43,180 --> 01:11:39,680
services have compartmentalized UFO

1485
01:11:46,390 --> 01:11:43,190
material could we have a be at a point

1486
01:11:50,530 --> 01:11:46,400
now where those in charge would be like

1487
01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:50,540
I have no idea where that stuff is and

1488
01:11:56,200 --> 01:11:53,810
they they probably don't because let's

1489
01:12:00,870 --> 01:11:56,210
let's take an example and this is a

1490
01:12:04,090 --> 01:12:00,880
known example because of a know red

1491
01:12:07,150 --> 01:12:04,100
satellite tracking incident where they

1492
01:12:09,510 --> 01:12:07,160
observe something come into orbit in

1493
01:12:11,170 --> 01:12:09,520
orbit behaving totally anonymous

1494
01:12:14,860 --> 01:12:11,180
anomalous lessly

1495
01:12:18,140 --> 01:12:14,870
as far as normal paths moving up down

1496
01:12:21,470 --> 01:12:18,150
around they track it for two orbits

1497
01:12:25,250 --> 01:12:21,480
no red declares a national security

1498
01:12:28,899 --> 01:12:25,260
emergency and by the next orbit it's

1499
01:12:31,850 --> 01:12:28,909
gone that sort of stuff goes into a log

1500
01:12:34,490 --> 01:12:31,860
because it's not a constant because it

1501
01:12:37,370 --> 01:12:34,500
was not threatening it stays in an

1502
01:12:41,090 --> 01:12:37,380
electronic log and within a certain

1503
01:12:43,669 --> 01:12:41,100
period of time it's erased because the

1504
01:12:45,530 --> 01:12:43,679
point is since there's no entity to

1505
01:12:49,459 --> 01:12:45,540
collect all of these what are really

1506
01:12:52,490 --> 01:12:49,469
operational reports they stay at the

1507
01:12:55,040 --> 01:12:52,500
local site that generated them and with

1508
01:12:57,160 --> 01:12:55,050
document control procedures after a

1509
01:13:00,649 --> 01:12:57,170
certain period of time they're erased

1510
01:13:03,620 --> 01:13:00,659
then they're never collected and that's

1511
01:13:06,649 --> 01:13:03,630
one of the problems with the whole thing

1512
01:13:09,890 --> 01:13:06,659
once once Bluebook stopped there is no

1513
01:13:12,530 --> 01:13:09,900
collection agency so I'm I'm afraid the

1514
01:13:14,320 --> 01:13:12,540
answer is no we're not going to see the

1515
01:13:17,419 --> 01:13:14,330
real good stuff

1516
01:13:21,979 --> 01:13:17,429
what just which to me is just crazy I

1517
01:13:26,090 --> 01:13:21,989
mean considering all the years of this

1518
01:13:29,330 --> 01:13:26,100
type of weird activity and and I guess

1519
01:13:32,630 --> 01:13:29,340
it makes sense when you know you said

1520
01:13:34,490 --> 01:13:32,640
previously that they don't they're not

1521
01:13:36,979 --> 01:13:34,500
looking for patterns they're just you

1522
01:13:40,669 --> 01:13:36,989
know taking down the incidents as they

1523
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:40,679
happen and not connecting you know a to

1524
01:13:48,430 --> 01:13:44,010
B B to C and and that sort of thing and

1525
01:13:51,919 --> 01:13:48,440
it just it just seems to me just to be

1526
01:13:54,590 --> 01:13:51,929
kind of oh I can't even think you know a

1527
01:13:56,180 --> 01:13:54,600
waste of intelligence possibly I don't

1528
01:13:58,550 --> 01:13:56,190
know I mean you know considering the

1529
01:14:00,979 --> 01:13:58,560
things that could have been learned over

1530
01:14:04,310 --> 01:14:00,989
the years if they just had done it

1531
01:14:08,540 --> 01:14:04,320
correctly oh you're absolutely correct

1532
01:14:11,060 --> 01:14:08,550
and and we're defeated by essentially by

1533
01:14:14,450 --> 01:14:11,070
practices that the whole military

1534
01:14:17,180 --> 01:14:14,460
intelligence structure is is set up to

1535
01:14:21,050 --> 01:14:17,190
handle certain types of incidents and

1536
01:14:24,380 --> 01:14:21,060
this it just doesn't mesh and you know

1537
01:14:27,729 --> 01:14:24,390
and that's it defeats us they could have

1538
01:14:32,030 --> 01:14:27,739
now as I point out in the book there are

1539
01:14:34,220 --> 01:14:32,040
intelligence groups threat and warning

1540
01:14:38,330 --> 01:14:34,230
that capture this type of information

1541
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:38,340
and track these incidents and they look

1542
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:41,610
for patterns over years and that still

1543
01:14:46,970 --> 01:14:44,330
does go on but to make that happen

1544
01:14:48,440 --> 01:14:46,980
there's a process it has to go through

1545
01:14:51,590 --> 01:14:48,450
it has to go through the National

1546
01:14:54,020 --> 01:14:51,600
Security Council and get assigned and I

1547
01:14:56,570 --> 01:14:54,030
have to say you know that that doesn't

1548
01:14:58,400 --> 01:14:56,580
mean that it didn't and they honor and

1549
01:15:00,650 --> 01:14:58,410
we don't know it but there's no sign

1550
01:15:03,230 --> 01:15:00,660
that that ever really happened they they

1551
01:15:05,060 --> 01:15:03,240
just they took a pass and I know I keep

1552
01:15:08,090 --> 01:15:05,070
saying that but that's what makes it so

1553
01:15:09,650 --> 01:15:08,100
frustrating is there are techniques and

1554
01:15:14,150 --> 01:15:09,660
that's what I did in the book literally

1555
01:15:16,430 --> 01:15:14,160
I took 1500 reports that could be

1556
01:15:19,400 --> 01:15:16,440
analyzed in that fashion over a period

1557
01:15:21,080 --> 01:15:19,410
of about 15 years and that's what I did

1558
01:15:24,170 --> 01:15:21,090
because it appears nobody else had done

1559
01:15:28,430 --> 01:15:24,180
it now you're talking about indications

1560
01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:28,440
analysis exactly all right all right

1561
01:15:38,210 --> 01:15:34,730
okay so we've been talking you know

1562
01:15:40,280 --> 01:15:38,220
mostly and I know that's that's the the

1563
01:15:43,970 --> 01:15:40,290
the main thesis of your book about you

1564
01:15:46,550 --> 01:15:43,980
know UFO our UFO sightings in the United

1565
01:15:49,100 --> 01:15:46,560
States but I mean have you read across

1566
01:15:53,480 --> 01:15:49,110
you know any information concerning you

1567
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:53,490
know other countries their knowledge of

1568
01:15:57,050 --> 01:15:55,530
UFOs because you know we're constantly

1569
01:16:00,350 --> 01:15:57,060
hearing you know from the disclosure

1570
01:16:01,820 --> 01:16:00,360
movement that oh wow you know if only

1571
01:16:03,410 --> 01:16:01,830
the United States government would

1572
01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:03,420
release all their information

1573
01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:05,570
you know we'd know the truth about UFOs

1574
01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:09,290
but if other countries have been

1575
01:16:17,030 --> 01:16:12,930
experiencing the same kind of of

1576
01:16:22,340 --> 01:16:17,040
sightings and you know other types of

1577
01:16:26,030 --> 01:16:22,350
incidents you would think that they

1578
01:16:28,220 --> 01:16:26,040
would have come to you know similar

1579
01:16:30,140 --> 01:16:28,230
conclusions or unless it's like the

1580
01:16:31,120 --> 01:16:30,150
United States it's not a threat we'll

1581
01:16:34,250 --> 01:16:31,130
just ignore it

1582
01:16:37,010 --> 01:16:34,260
well France and Spain have done

1583
01:16:39,380 --> 01:16:37,020
particularly good and with Japan and

1584
01:16:41,590 --> 01:16:39,390
France they they have released a lot of

1585
01:16:45,500 --> 01:16:41,600
their material there are a couple of the

1586
01:16:49,730 --> 01:16:45,510
Latin American nations Brazil's really

1587
01:16:52,220 --> 01:16:49,740
a lot of material but it's not the same

1588
01:16:56,840 --> 01:16:52,230
it's it's more of those individual

1589
01:16:58,760 --> 01:16:56,850
incidents and there are not enough of

1590
01:17:02,870 --> 01:16:58,770
them that are structured over a period

1591
01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:02,880
of time it's so there's some good data

1592
01:17:07,490 --> 01:17:05,370
there and actually one of my one of my

1593
01:17:10,430 --> 01:17:07,500
thoughts was to turn to the French

1594
01:17:13,370 --> 01:17:10,440
information next and see if you could

1595
01:17:17,060 --> 01:17:13,380
you could map to it but a lot of that

1596
01:17:19,160 --> 01:17:17,070
information is also more current it it

1597
01:17:21,590 --> 01:17:19,170
doesn't give you the length of the time

1598
01:17:26,320 --> 01:17:21,600
it you know it started in the 60s and

1599
01:17:29,900 --> 01:17:26,330
70s and it's more of the nature of

1600
01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:29,910
incidental civilian observations

1601
01:17:36,710 --> 01:17:32,970
maybe commercial airline observations

1602
01:17:39,410 --> 01:17:36,720
and not really the military security

1603
01:17:41,900 --> 01:17:39,420
complex stuff that I was most interested

1604
01:17:44,060 --> 01:17:41,910
in because what I saw on what I was

1605
01:17:46,550 --> 01:17:44,070
looking at is the unknowns that I'm

1606
01:17:49,310 --> 01:17:46,560
looking at may very well be different

1607
01:17:53,450 --> 01:17:49,320
than the more random pattern things but

1608
01:17:55,490 --> 01:17:53,460
the ones I'm looking at are not random

1609
01:17:59,120 --> 01:17:55,500
they have shows some very definite

1610
01:18:02,090 --> 01:17:59,130
patterns even the shapes and the shapes

1611
01:18:04,600 --> 01:18:02,100
and appearances and movements don't

1612
01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:04,610
change nearly as much in these military

1613
01:18:09,710 --> 01:18:07,410
oriented sightings and you see that in

1614
01:18:12,890 --> 01:18:09,720
the studies the Air Force's first

1615
01:18:18,050 --> 01:18:12,900
reports in the first five years of study

1616
01:18:21,830 --> 01:18:18,060
all showed very consistent aerodynamic

1617
01:18:25,730 --> 01:18:21,840
characteristics maneuvers only a couple

1618
01:18:28,100 --> 01:18:25,740
of different shapes and you know so

1619
01:18:29,960 --> 01:18:28,110
there is some stability there were in a

1620
01:18:32,720 --> 01:18:29,970
lot of these other incidents

1621
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:32,730
it appears what the military was seen in

1622
01:18:40,640 --> 01:18:35,250
a lot of cases was a lot less random

1623
01:18:42,440 --> 01:18:40,650
than what civilian observers see and why

1624
01:18:43,970 --> 01:18:42,450
do you think what do you think that is I

1625
01:18:47,030 --> 01:18:43,980
mean is it just you know because you're

1626
01:18:51,680 --> 01:18:47,040
dealing with untrained observers no I

1627
01:18:54,470 --> 01:18:51,690
don't because that we we have very good

1628
01:18:56,810 --> 01:18:54,480
evidence actually scientific evidence to

1629
01:18:59,300 --> 01:18:56,820
talk about the quality of observations

1630
01:19:00,680 --> 01:18:59,310
no I think it's not so much

1631
01:19:02,990 --> 01:19:00,690
what they're seeing is where they're

1632
01:19:08,060 --> 01:19:03,000
seen it I'm talking about sightings over

1633
01:19:11,510 --> 01:19:08,070
military bases sightings with the atomic

1634
01:19:14,300 --> 01:19:11,520
warfare complex in particular there you

1635
01:19:16,850 --> 01:19:14,310
see civilians and military reporting the

1636
01:19:19,450 --> 01:19:16,860
same observations it's the same thing

1637
01:19:22,220 --> 01:19:19,460
that they're seeing clearly no I think

1638
01:19:24,950 --> 01:19:22,230
what you probably see it didn't

1639
01:19:28,010 --> 01:19:24,960
Hynek or someone made a joke sometime

1640
01:19:30,740 --> 01:19:28,020
about okay what we're seeing with all of

1641
01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:30,750
these other reports is just you know

1642
01:19:34,730 --> 01:19:32,850
these are the graduate on through policy

1643
01:19:38,080 --> 01:19:34,740
students that are out getting drunk and

1644
01:19:42,590 --> 01:19:38,090
showing off and and you know they're not

1645
01:19:44,680 --> 01:19:42,600
they're not serious you know and and

1646
01:19:48,830 --> 01:19:44,690
they're maybe I that's pure speculation

1647
01:19:52,340 --> 01:19:48,840
but there seems to be a trend that there

1648
01:19:56,930 --> 01:19:52,350
were early on very a lot of daylight

1649
01:20:00,530 --> 01:19:56,940
sightings low speed low altitude very

1650
01:20:02,450 --> 01:20:00,540
solid descriptions or the day over a

1651
01:20:05,780 --> 01:20:02,460
period of time we got much more random

1652
01:20:10,160 --> 01:20:05,790
we got a lot more nighttime sighting we

1653
01:20:13,790 --> 01:20:10,170
got orbs we got you know the stuff that

1654
01:20:18,200 --> 01:20:13,800
you see in the upstate New York of these

1655
01:20:20,060 --> 01:20:18,210
big things that look like bridges not

1656
01:20:23,750 --> 01:20:20,070
upstate New York northern New York City

1657
01:20:25,940 --> 01:20:23,760
yeah you took a Hudson Hudson Valley and

1658
01:20:31,730 --> 01:20:25,950
and so there's a lot of that variety

1659
01:20:34,580 --> 01:20:31,740
that comes into play post 70's and what

1660
01:20:37,610 --> 01:20:34,590
it I'm just guessing at this what I seem

1661
01:20:40,810 --> 01:20:37,620
to pee it's almost like they got the

1662
01:20:43,280 --> 01:20:40,820
picture that they needed of our

1663
01:20:46,610 --> 01:20:43,290
especially our atomic war fire

1664
01:20:48,770 --> 01:20:46,620
capabilities and the the folks that

1665
01:20:51,290 --> 01:20:48,780
we're doing that got the information

1666
01:20:53,560 --> 01:20:51,300
they needed and pulled off and then you

1667
01:20:57,170 --> 01:20:53,570
start getting this really random stuff

1668
01:20:59,000 --> 01:20:57,180
with a lot more of the contacts that you

1669
01:21:01,730 --> 01:20:59,010
were talking about earlier and the

1670
01:21:04,250 --> 01:21:01,740
random contacts that you don't see back

1671
01:21:07,010 --> 01:21:04,260
in the 40s and 50s

1672
01:21:10,400 --> 01:21:07,020
yeah oh I'm just gonna I was just going

1673
01:21:12,650 --> 01:21:10,410
to ask a Preston wait you've got you've

1674
01:21:15,080 --> 01:21:12,660
got all these you know

1675
01:21:19,010 --> 01:21:15,090
reports of encounters and abductions and

1676
01:21:21,260 --> 01:21:19,020
people being in inside the ufos is there

1677
01:21:23,810 --> 01:21:21,270
anything that really has any cases that

1678
01:21:26,990 --> 01:21:23,820
have been really positive in nature I

1679
01:21:30,650 --> 01:21:27,000
mean you've got some spaceman two

1680
01:21:32,690 --> 01:21:30,660
Venetians and and a latter-day you know

1681
01:21:36,500 --> 01:21:32,700
talking about peace and love and anti

1682
01:21:39,830 --> 01:21:36,510
war but is there anything really that

1683
01:21:43,670 --> 01:21:39,840
the person that they do that has a

1684
01:21:45,950 --> 01:21:43,680
positive outcome oh yeah I mean well the

1685
01:21:48,020 --> 01:21:45,960
case we discuss earlier the lady was

1686
01:21:50,660 --> 01:21:48,030
healed though she felt she was kind of

1687
01:21:52,880 --> 01:21:50,670
treated like a lab rat there's one guy

1688
01:21:56,990 --> 01:21:52,890
talked to this case is in the book he is

1689
01:22:00,860 --> 01:21:57,000
a Native American blood Indian from

1690
01:22:03,620 --> 01:22:00,870
Canada Stan Hughes is he's had a number

1691
01:22:07,190 --> 01:22:03,630
of really benevolent encounters where

1692
01:22:10,280 --> 01:22:07,200
UFOs had showed themselves to him in a

1693
01:22:13,010 --> 01:22:10,290
warning capacity what showed up he was

1694
01:22:14,900 --> 01:22:13,020
camping and he felt like it was trying

1695
01:22:17,000 --> 01:22:14,910
to warn him or something and when he got

1696
01:22:20,060 --> 01:22:17,010
home he found out that his family was

1697
01:22:23,450 --> 01:22:20,070
having a crisis his son is having an

1698
01:22:26,540 --> 01:22:23,460
emotional crisis he had one incident

1699
01:22:29,390 --> 01:22:26,550
probably his most remarkable one where

1700
01:22:32,300 --> 01:22:29,400
he was up and leave this is in the Idaho

1701
01:22:35,600 --> 01:22:32,310
Panhandle driving along at the base of

1702
01:22:38,570 --> 01:22:35,610
Thunder well early in the morning in his

1703
01:22:42,470 --> 01:22:38,580
pickup when he starts to feel kind of a

1704
01:22:45,770 --> 01:22:42,480
little woozy pulls over and this giant

1705
01:22:49,580 --> 01:22:45,780
silver craft that's how he described as

1706
01:22:53,510 --> 01:22:49,590
a craft perfectly round which almost a

1707
01:22:55,550 --> 01:22:53,520
mirror-like chrome surface lands on the

1708
01:22:58,340 --> 01:22:55,560
road in front of him or maybe a foot

1709
01:23:01,850 --> 01:22:58,350
above the road totally silent except for

1710
01:23:03,650 --> 01:23:01,860
a soft whooshing noise about he's

1711
01:23:06,350 --> 01:23:03,660
staring at it it's just 20 feet away

1712
01:23:09,680 --> 01:23:06,360
covered in the entire road this door

1713
01:23:13,940 --> 01:23:09,690
pops open or this opening and out steps

1714
01:23:16,100 --> 01:23:13,950
this beautiful man says it was a Middle

1715
01:23:19,370 --> 01:23:16,110
Eastern kind of looking guy dark eyes

1716
01:23:22,130 --> 01:23:19,380
dark hair but perfect features a very

1717
01:23:26,060 --> 01:23:22,140
very handsome man with shoulder-length

1718
01:23:30,050 --> 01:23:26,070
hair wearing a blue jumpsuit was ver

1719
01:23:32,209 --> 01:23:30,060
muscular and had a silver boots on and

1720
01:23:35,870 --> 01:23:32,219
kind of just steps down walks up to his

1721
01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:35,880
car and waves at him and Stan says when

1722
01:23:42,109 --> 01:23:38,610
he saw this guy he became overcome with

1723
01:23:44,990 --> 01:23:42,119
emotion because he feels like he calls

1724
01:23:47,300 --> 01:23:45,000
them the whoa J or the star people it

1725
01:23:51,200 --> 01:23:47,310
feels like these guys are has ancestors

1726
01:23:52,669 --> 01:23:51,210
and so he's seeing the skies I go you

1727
01:23:55,189 --> 01:23:52,679
know take me with you I want to go with

1728
01:23:58,250 --> 01:23:55,199
you and as soon as he thought this the

1729
01:24:00,770 --> 01:23:58,260
man smiled dropped his has put his hand

1730
01:24:04,250 --> 01:24:00,780
down he turns around goes back into his

1731
01:24:06,200 --> 01:24:04,260
craft and it takes off and I said it was

1732
01:24:09,589 --> 01:24:06,210
a very emotional experience he felt just

1733
01:24:11,660 --> 01:24:09,599
waves of sadness pour over him and it

1734
01:24:13,069 --> 01:24:11,670
took him a long time to get over it he

1735
01:24:16,339 --> 01:24:13,079
still gets tears in his eyes when he

1736
01:24:20,780 --> 01:24:16,349
talks about it but a really me guy he's

1737
01:24:24,620 --> 01:24:20,790
a teacher and uh has had a lot of these

1738
01:24:26,899 --> 01:24:24,630
kind of benevolent encounters so III

1739
01:24:29,390 --> 01:24:26,909
mean are there okay so you have all

1740
01:24:31,700 --> 01:24:29,400
these are.this you must you must have

1741
01:24:34,729 --> 01:24:31,710
investigated hundreds of close

1742
01:24:36,890 --> 01:24:34,739
encounters over the years I mean are

1743
01:24:39,530 --> 01:24:36,900
they are there any there are no patterns

1744
01:24:40,910 --> 01:24:39,540
that you see whatsoever oh there are

1745
01:24:42,740 --> 01:24:40,920
definitely patterns I think when

1746
01:24:45,680 --> 01:24:42,750
someone's taken on board what I hear

1747
01:24:48,709 --> 01:24:45,690
most often of course being physically

1748
01:24:51,080 --> 01:24:48,719
examined this is borne out by other

1749
01:24:55,250 --> 01:24:51,090
studies like Thomas Bullard his study of

1750
01:24:58,399 --> 01:24:55,260
like 300 plus abductees but what I found

1751
01:25:00,560 --> 01:24:58,409
is in the ETS talk to people they give

1752
01:25:03,439 --> 01:25:00,570
the messages it falls into three main

1753
01:25:05,750 --> 01:25:03,449
categories and this I hear over and over

1754
01:25:09,950 --> 01:25:05,760
again the first and most common would be

1755
01:25:11,899 --> 01:25:09,960
warnings of future disasters just like

1756
01:25:15,500 --> 01:25:11,909
Kevin Cannon was told that there would

1757
01:25:19,459 --> 01:25:15,510
be hurricanes and such I get that a lot

1758
01:25:22,629 --> 01:25:19,469
second the spiritual messages of some

1759
01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:22,639
sort often involving healing or

1760
01:25:28,310 --> 01:25:26,610
something this direction a lot of people

1761
01:25:30,220 --> 01:25:28,320
come away from their experiences feeling

1762
01:25:34,580 --> 01:25:30,230
like they can do hands-on healing or

1763
01:25:36,040 --> 01:25:34,590
Reiki or channeling or they start having

1764
01:25:38,720 --> 01:25:36,050
psychic visions

1765
01:25:40,069 --> 01:25:38,730
that was very strong spiritual

1766
01:25:43,250 --> 01:25:40,079
transformation which is

1767
01:25:45,850 --> 01:25:43,260
we link to this and thirdly this comes

1768
01:25:48,589 --> 01:25:45,860
up a lot too is alternative energy

1769
01:25:50,240 --> 01:25:48,599
people are sometimes taken to the engine

1770
01:25:53,510 --> 01:25:50,250
room I have a case like this involving

1771
01:25:56,180 --> 01:25:53,520
another Navy man I'm electronics

1772
01:25:59,450 --> 01:25:56,190
specialist Jim cubile back because his

1773
01:26:03,890 --> 01:25:59,460
name is we saw his UFO and encounter on

1774
01:26:05,870 --> 01:26:03,900
the USS Valley Forge and a lot of

1775
01:26:07,700 --> 01:26:05,880
officers saw it but he was currently

1776
01:26:10,100 --> 01:26:07,710
taken on board and they showed in this

1777
01:26:11,990 --> 01:26:10,110
engine room and they had this long

1778
01:26:15,020 --> 01:26:12,000
conversation about alternative energy

1779
01:26:17,720 --> 01:26:15,030
sources and how we are relying too much

1780
01:26:20,270 --> 01:26:17,730
on fossil fuels but really there's all

1781
01:26:23,390 --> 01:26:20,280
this free energy sources around us that

1782
01:26:25,160 --> 01:26:23,400
would destroy our planet so yeah those

1783
01:26:27,799 --> 01:26:25,170
are the patterns I've noticed most

1784
01:26:30,740 --> 01:26:27,809
strongly and I've also noticed another

1785
01:26:34,189 --> 01:26:30,750
pattern in terms of who has contact you

1786
01:26:36,229 --> 01:26:34,199
know why which has always baffled me

1787
01:26:38,990 --> 01:26:36,239
because I mean why are some people

1788
01:26:40,839 --> 01:26:39,000
contacted not others and what I found

1789
01:26:44,390 --> 01:26:40,849
and this is kind of a loose cotton and

1790
01:26:46,640 --> 01:26:44,400
going beyond like famiglia family

1791
01:26:49,430 --> 01:26:46,650
history which is certainly a pattern or

1792
01:26:52,040 --> 01:26:49,440
you know driving outside at night that

1793
01:26:54,020 --> 01:26:52,050
circle increases your chances but I've

1794
01:26:56,899 --> 01:26:54,030
found that people are having extensive

1795
01:27:00,530 --> 01:26:56,909
contact are often people who are doing

1796
01:27:04,899 --> 01:27:00,540
good work for Humanity in some capacity

1797
01:27:13,339 --> 01:27:09,919
entertainers inventors doctors social

1798
01:27:15,729 --> 01:27:13,349
workers like John Hunter Grey perfect

1799
01:27:19,339 --> 01:27:15,739
example award-winning social worker

1800
01:27:22,450 --> 01:27:19,349
abducted by ETS who healed him so that's

1801
01:27:24,979 --> 01:27:22,460
it's a loose pattern but I get it a lot

1802
01:27:27,410 --> 01:27:24,989
so those are some of the patterns

1803
01:27:29,720 --> 01:27:27,420
certainly well you know we're we're kind

1804
01:27:34,729 --> 01:27:29,730
of closing in on the end of the end of

1805
01:27:41,629 --> 01:27:34,739
the program well Preston now you've

1806
01:27:43,520 --> 01:27:41,639
written how many books 20 21 and 14 the

1807
01:27:48,740 --> 01:27:43,530
paranormal is of course connected to

1808
01:27:50,629 --> 01:27:48,750
this well absolutely yes and and what

1809
01:27:52,700 --> 01:27:50,639
what have been your like your major your

1810
01:27:53,870 --> 01:27:52,710
major works would you say I mean if

1811
01:27:57,500 --> 01:27:53,880
people were going

1812
01:28:00,260 --> 01:27:57,510
to trip on over to Amazon after the

1813
01:28:02,600 --> 01:28:00,270
program what would what would they look

1814
01:28:05,450 --> 01:28:02,610
for well

1815
01:28:07,490 --> 01:28:05,460
I pioneered the study of UFO healings I

1816
01:28:09,020 --> 01:28:07,500
wrote the first book I'm not well that

1817
01:28:12,649 --> 01:28:09,030
was it that's sir yes I remember that

1818
01:28:14,660 --> 01:28:12,659
that's certainly a you know something

1819
01:28:17,959 --> 01:28:14,670
that's not only of interest but again is

1820
01:28:20,540 --> 01:28:17,969
a kind of a positive side of this that

1821
01:28:22,910 --> 01:28:20,550
you don't hear right you know too much

1822
01:28:25,100 --> 01:28:22,920
about it's it's one thing to say a peace

1823
01:28:27,560 --> 01:28:25,110
and love and give up your your arms

1824
01:28:31,520 --> 01:28:27,570
which the CIA I guess didn't like it too

1825
01:28:33,800 --> 01:28:31,530
much but but it's another thing they

1826
01:28:35,800 --> 01:28:33,810
actually gets about positive benefits

1827
01:28:39,950 --> 01:28:35,810
then you've also done a series of books

1828
01:28:43,040 --> 01:28:39,960
about UFOs over specifics or particular

1829
01:28:44,570 --> 01:28:43,050
States write history books you know this

1830
01:28:46,939 --> 01:28:44,580
is a serious subject it's got to be

1831
01:28:48,979 --> 01:28:46,949
taken seriously and this yeah these

1832
01:28:51,350 --> 01:28:48,989
stories were getting lost to posterity

1833
01:28:55,459 --> 01:28:51,360
so yeah did you oppose over California

1834
01:28:57,160 --> 01:28:55,469
Nevada Arizona New Mexico New York all

1835
01:29:00,340 --> 01:28:57,170
the states that I thought were really

1836
01:29:04,160 --> 01:29:00,350
having a huge impact on how we feel in

1837
01:29:06,560 --> 01:29:04,170
you UFOs well you only got about 37 more

1838
01:29:10,910 --> 01:29:06,570
states to do then that shouldn't take me

1839
01:29:13,149 --> 01:29:10,920
more fifty years or so I think we've had

1840
01:29:20,689 --> 01:29:13,159
a few guests that'll we had a fellow on

1841
01:29:25,280 --> 01:29:20,699
just last week who wrote a book on UFOs

1842
01:29:28,479 --> 01:29:25,290
over military insulate you fo s Bigfoot

1843
01:29:30,979 --> 01:29:28,489
and other paranoia ghosts over military

1844
01:29:33,830 --> 01:29:30,989
facilities or our military facilities

1845
01:29:35,270 --> 01:29:33,840
just to the state of Georgia now I mean

1846
01:29:38,959 --> 01:29:35,280
that's that's kind of get there pretty

1847
01:29:41,090 --> 01:29:38,969
pretty close and how about coming down

1848
01:29:41,930 --> 01:29:41,100
the pike what would you what do we have

1849
01:29:45,470 --> 01:29:41,940
to look forward to

1850
01:29:47,720 --> 01:29:45,480
I won't putting out a book about USO is

1851
01:29:51,200 --> 01:29:47,730
particularly USO is off the Southern

1852
01:29:53,300 --> 01:29:51,210
California coast here and is there on

1853
01:29:57,439 --> 01:29:53,310
this card it's kind of the Beach Boys

1854
01:29:59,090 --> 01:29:57,449
versus the mother ship exactly a lot of

1855
01:30:03,110 --> 01:29:59,100
activity it's probably one of the most

1856
01:30:06,229 --> 01:30:03,120
active USO areas on our planet certainly

1857
01:30:07,560 --> 01:30:06,239
in the top five I would say yeah

1858
01:30:10,439 --> 01:30:07,570
so yeah that's coming

1859
01:30:12,330 --> 01:30:10,449
dear another book on UFO healings

1860
01:30:13,950 --> 01:30:12,340
because I've got well the original book

1861
01:30:18,270 --> 01:30:13,960
had a hundred cases I've got over a

1862
01:30:21,330 --> 01:30:18,280
hundred more UFOs over Colorado it's

1863
01:30:22,950 --> 01:30:21,340
coming out in a few months people most

1864
01:30:27,890 --> 01:30:22,960
people must knock on your door in the

1865
01:30:34,709 --> 01:30:30,569
there over me their UFOs are here right

1866
01:30:36,870 --> 01:30:34,719
now all kinds of emails yeah this latest

1867
01:30:41,250 --> 01:30:36,880
book has really gotten a lot of people

1868
01:30:43,760 --> 01:30:41,260
to contact me and and where do you have

1869
01:30:45,990 --> 01:30:43,770
a website or you're on Facebook or oh

1870
01:30:48,089 --> 01:30:46,000
yeah people want to get close and

1871
01:30:50,220 --> 01:30:48,099
personal how do they do that yeah I'm on

1872
01:30:52,080 --> 01:30:50,230
Facebook I do have a website if you just

1873
01:30:54,859 --> 01:30:52,090
google my name it'll take you there the

1874
01:30:57,839 --> 01:30:54,869
actual address Westin Dennis weebly.com

1875
01:31:00,180 --> 01:30:57,849
I got only it better to google it yeah

1876
01:31:01,530 --> 01:31:00,190
yeah just google my name and yeah I'd

1877
01:31:04,319 --> 01:31:01,540
love to hear from people if they've got

1878
01:31:05,459 --> 01:31:04,329
a story or a question I really

1879
01:31:05,640 --> 01:31:05,469
appreciate you guys having me on the

1880
01:31:08,520 --> 01:31:05,650
show

1881
01:31:11,899 --> 01:31:08,530
you know you've always been fascinating

1882
01:31:14,669 --> 01:31:11,909
a guest with you know up-to-date

1883
01:31:17,220 --> 01:31:14,679
material and that's what we we like we

1884
01:31:20,399 --> 01:31:17,230
we like to hear you know what's pressing

1885
01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:20,409
and Larry Hancock how about you would

1886
01:31:26,879 --> 01:31:22,570
you you've done your first book on UFOs

1887
01:31:30,290 --> 01:31:26,889
gonna go back to the trough I am I have

1888
01:31:33,770 --> 01:31:30,300
two books coming out next year one is

1889
01:31:36,510 --> 01:31:33,780
they're both history again one is a a

1890
01:31:39,930 --> 01:31:36,520
revisit of the King assassination and

1891
01:31:42,540 --> 01:31:39,940
the other is back to intelligence

1892
01:31:44,850 --> 01:31:42,550
history the title is creating chaos a

1893
01:31:48,149 --> 01:31:44,860
study of American and Russian political

1894
01:31:51,450 --> 01:31:48,159
warfare into the 21st century so not

1895
01:31:55,919 --> 01:31:51,460
exactly UFO I have to say you know are

1896
01:31:58,859 --> 01:31:55,929
do you ever get on any of these TV news

1897
01:32:01,169 --> 01:31:58,869
programs that seem to have a just many

1898
01:32:03,810 --> 01:32:01,179
many guests not talking about well the

1899
01:32:04,260 --> 01:32:03,820
Russians are very big today to say the

1900
01:32:07,830 --> 01:32:04,270
least

1901
01:32:10,530 --> 01:32:07,840
I have in the past and they've talked

1902
01:32:13,140 --> 01:32:10,540
about shadow warfare and and I have done

1903
01:32:16,169 --> 01:32:13,150
that in the past at the moment there's

1904
01:32:17,580 --> 01:32:16,179
so much noise in the media and it went

1905
01:32:19,979 --> 01:32:17,590
to once I get the book out I think

1906
01:32:21,060 --> 01:32:19,989
there's potatoes but at the moment I'm

1907
01:32:24,060 --> 01:32:21,070
getting as

1908
01:32:26,040 --> 01:32:24,070
monoi news from the media as far as

1909
01:32:28,950 --> 01:32:26,050
research is concerned as anything else

1910
01:32:30,300 --> 01:32:28,960
but yeah I walk in the other I walk in

1911
01:32:33,209 --> 01:32:30,310
the other room I've walked in the other

1912
01:32:36,600 --> 01:32:33,219
room to get some you know bottle of ice

1913
01:32:38,399 --> 01:32:36,610
water out of the fridge and it's all

1914
01:32:40,859 --> 01:32:38,409
about the Russians on every news program

1915
01:32:42,510 --> 01:32:40,869
that you could possibly see I think

1916
01:32:44,520 --> 01:32:42,520
there are worse now than they were back

1917
01:32:46,530 --> 01:32:44,530
in the days of Khrushchev I always liked

1918
01:32:49,319 --> 01:32:46,540
a little old guy beating a shoe on the

1919
01:32:53,370 --> 01:32:49,329
UN you know table you know you know

1920
01:32:56,189 --> 01:32:53,380
poetry and the Internet has made it much

1921
01:32:58,649 --> 01:32:56,199
more dangerous that's going to be a big

1922
01:33:01,800 --> 01:32:58,659
topic of the book how much more

1923
01:33:04,350 --> 01:33:01,810
dangerous the old practices are now with

1924
01:33:05,970 --> 01:33:04,360
the internet and social media well that

1925
01:33:08,010 --> 01:33:05,980
certainly fits in with our interest

1926
01:33:11,250 --> 01:33:08,020
there too so will will certainly have to

1927
01:33:15,109 --> 01:33:11,260
have you you back on that but you you

1928
01:33:18,830 --> 01:33:15,119
certainly haven't inspired us to take a

1929
01:33:23,040 --> 01:33:18,840
deeper look into the the files of the

1930
01:33:24,930 --> 01:33:23,050
CIA and I would recommend both guests

1931
01:33:27,209 --> 01:33:24,940
the book for this evening and speaking

1932
01:33:30,180 --> 01:33:27,219
of books Tim we just came out with one

1933
01:33:32,879 --> 01:33:30,190
this week ourselves biblical UFO

1934
01:33:36,000 --> 01:33:32,889
revelations that extraterrestrial powers

1935
01:33:38,850 --> 01:33:36,010
cause ancient miracles by our friend

1936
01:33:41,700 --> 01:33:38,860
Reverend Barry downing and this is the

1937
01:33:45,390 --> 01:33:41,710
first book that he's done in 50 years

1938
01:33:47,910 --> 01:33:45,400
and you know I'm not a I consider myself

1939
01:33:50,609 --> 01:33:47,920
more of a he'd heathen than a a true

1940
01:33:52,280 --> 01:33:50,619
believer but this guy this guy's got it

1941
01:33:54,990 --> 01:33:52,290
down I mean if there's a book on

1942
01:33:56,550 --> 01:33:55,000
religion and Christianity and UFOs

1943
01:33:59,459 --> 01:33:56,560
you've got to get biblical UFO

1944
01:34:01,950 --> 01:33:59,469
revelation and thank you Peter thank you

1945
01:34:04,109 --> 01:34:01,960
Carol thank you Tim thank you Tina thank

1946
01:34:05,760 --> 01:34:04,119
you one and all and we'll see you next

1947
01:34:08,129 --> 01:34:05,770
week you don't forget our YouTube

1948
01:34:11,550 --> 01:34:08,139
channel and we're now aren't stitcher

1949
01:34:14,310 --> 01:34:11,560
and iTunes so explore the skies at the

1950
01:34:19,180 --> 01:34:14,320
paranormal and see you think

1951
01:34:26,000 --> 01:34:22,010
you've been listening to exploring the

1952
01:34:29,270 --> 01:34:26,010
bazaar with hosts Timothy Beckley and to

1953
01:34:32,150 --> 01:34:29,280
Swartz they're taking back the night by

1954
01:34:34,730 --> 01:34:32,160
jetting non-stop across the cosmos in

1955
01:34:38,320 --> 01:34:34,740
search of the truly bizarre and totally

1956
01:34:41,050 --> 01:34:38,330
unexplained with you as their combatants

1957
01:34:45,500 --> 01:34:41,060
Thursday nights at 7:00 p.m. Pacific

1958
01:34:46,740 --> 01:34:45,510
10:00 p.m. Eastern and the K cor digital

1959
01:34:49,320 --> 01:34:46,750
radio

1960
01:34:52,620 --> 01:34:49,330
for more information on exploring the

1961
01:34:53,370 --> 01:34:52,630
bazaars and hosts Timothy Becky and team

1962
01:34:55,860 --> 01:34:53,380
Swartz

1963
01:34:59,250 --> 01:34:55,870
check out their kco our digital radio

1964
01:35:15,200 --> 01:34:59,260
network follow their YouTube channel at